Posted on 04/03/2006 7:30:41 PM PDT by churchillbuff
On premium cable, "Penn & Teller" (Showtime, 10 p.m.) starts a fourth season by taking on the Boy Scouts of America, charging their anti-gay bias came after the Mormons hijacked the organization in the '70s. Brash humor keeps this lively series from becoming too strident
(Excerpt) Read more at courant.com ...
You see, there is a difference in rank advancement requirements and just plain participating. I just participated, learned a helluva lot about things and life. I can't recall ever being made or told to comply with any "religious requirements".
It was our choice, pure and simple. I think that's where most of these anti-scout folks get their ideas. They must think it's all "mandatory" to comply with these ideals to participate in Scouting.
Cheers!
In Cub Scouts, the question of religion doesn't come up so much, and the Scout himself would likely not be asked about his beliefs.
In Boy Scouts, after passing all the requirements for a rank, but prior to being approved for it, the Scout must undergo a Scoutmaster Conference. The Scoutmaster meets one on one with the young man and confirms the young man has performed the various requirements. He'll ask him about what he thinks of how the Troop is running and Troop activities. He also talks with the young man about his life outside of Scouting; school, family, extra-curricular activities, etc. And he may talk to him about the ideals of Scouting. Some of my favorite questions were, "You say every week, 'On my Honor I will do my best to do my Duty to God and my Country.' What do you think Honor means? What do you think Duty means? What do you think your Duty to God is? What do you think your Duty to your Country is?"
You'll get answers of varying sophistication depending on the age and experience of the boy. As far as I am concerned, the only wrong answer to "What is your Duty to God" would be, "I don't have one; there's no such thing." Not that I'd require that he believe in a corporate God; but I'd want to hear about some kind of belief in a higher power.
After that, the young man will sit in a Board of Review, where a few members of the Troop Committee, people who support the Troop's operations (selecting and recruiting leaders, running the popcorn sale, handling money, buying equipment, getting camping permits, tracking advancement, etc.) talk to the young man. They can't throw him a rope and make him tie a bowline, but they want to know if he seems to be prepared to move up the ladder, and to get to know him. They also might ask him about his beliefs.
The Girl Scouts don't have the equivalent of these two processes.
If a kid plainly states he has no belief in a higher power, with no reservations, at that point he should be disqualified from further participation in Scouting.
There are no ranks that have a religious requirment, such as attendance at church, etc. While the BSA permits and promotes participation in P.R.A.Y.'s religious award program, they are not BSA awards and earning them is not required for any rank. And you are quite right; there is no need to earn any rank to participate in Scouting. I have told more than one Scout, "You don't have to earn Eagle to be a good Scout. I never earned my Eagle, but I think Scouting did me a world of good." This is not necessarily popular with the parents, but it's the truth as I see it.
My guess would be that the Westboro group was picketing the BSA because they were not being anti-homosexual enough for their tastes, since the BSA does not actively hunt down and ban homosexuals from membership.
I agree with your assessment about the parents and Scouting. It's not about the rank, it's more about what the boy learns and becomes while participating.
Cheers!
About 40% or 45% of Scout units are chartered by non-religious sponsors; VFW, American Legion Posts, Lions Clubs, PTA's/PTO's, various fraternal organizations like the Odd Fellows, etc.
" Ever hear of Hill Cumorah (I think I butchered that spelling) near Palmyra?"
"What part of NY did you grow up in? I misspent my youth in the heart of the Finger Lakes."
I grew up in a burb not far from NYC and went to Ten Mile River scout camp. For a young boy it was heaven on Earth!
the mormons did not hijack the organization. there are however certain troops that are out of the mormon church controlled by the sponsoring organization, but there are also armenian troops, catholic troops, methodist troops, etc, etc, doesn't mean one religion has hijacked the BSA...
That's why no one will try to make fun of islam now. I'd like to see South Park, Penn and Teller, etc., do a special on that nut-case, so-called religion of peace!
Officially they are not open to atheists/agnostics.
They rent public buildings for prices like $1/year, the military helps them set up their events, etc. Just because the government isn't handing them sacks of cash doesn't mean they aren't using public funds.
The BSA can discriminate against whoever they want when they aren't using my tax money to do it.
It wasn't their best show, but they did expose some hypocrisy, about how the boy scouts get all kinds of property virtually rent free in government buildings and such, but then are still allowed to discriminate, which is a no no whether you agree with them or not.
Penn & Teller's show is great though, a very un PC slaughter of many sacred cows of the left and right.
Here we go!
Camp Aquehonga!
http://www.tenmileriver.org/aq/
They rent public buildings for prices like $1/year, the military helps them set up their events, etc. Just because the government isn't handing them sacks of cash doesn't mean they aren't using public funds.
If there is anything more than a de mimimus cost, they have to pay. Using a room in a building that is otherwise sitting empty doesn't cost the government a dime.
"All the people interviewed on the show that were criticizing the BSA were saying that the BSA is an amazing idea and great for our kids. ALL of them, not just straight christians."
I am Jewish and there were plenty of other Jews at the scout camp I went to as a kid. There was even Rabbi who served as the Jewish chaplain!
Wow, this is a surprise! Since when have P & T become pro Gay?
So, you consider Mormons to be "lunatic right"? ...and you consider it to be "lunatic right" to deny homosexuals the opportunity to work closely with groups of Boy Scouts?
What Mormon takeover!? I call flagrant BS. It's a totally unfounded, and unproven, assertion, by you and P & T.
Tell me when they find the guts to go after the ROP.
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