Steyn: Will we stick our necks out for his faith?

Orange County Register ^ | 25 Mar 06 | Mark Steyn

[rellimpank]

Fate conspires to remind us what this war is really about: civilizational confidence. And so history repeats itself: first the farce of the Danish cartoons, and now the tragedy - a man on trial for his life in post-Taliban Afghanistan because he has committed the crime of converting to Christianity.

The cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad were deeply offensive to Muslims, and so thousands protested around the world in the usual restrained manner - rioting, torching, killing, etc.

[infowarrior]

Re-read what I wrote. I wrote, "Islam itself, as dictated by the koran, is an organization advocating and participating in genocide"... Absolutely nothing there about "individual Islamofascist terrorists". If you choose not to understand the signifigance, then, that's *your* problem, not mine... Furthermore this constant extortionate drumbeat of there's 1.2 billion of them, we had best not (whatever), has worn more than a mite thin since 9-11-01. It no longer plays well in PG County, let alone Peoria...

the infowarrior

[dfwgator]

What kind of person freely joins a religion that promises death to you if you ever leave it?

And realize that a Muslim believes that everyone is born Muslim, therefore even if you were never a Muslim, they consider you to have "left" Islam, since you were born Muslim.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Islam is not an organization. It has no Pope. No Fuehrer. I can see how individual adherents of Islam can be dealt with. How do you deal with a religion as if it was a tangible object?

1.2 billion. You don't like hearing that? You think it has worn thin? What has worn thin is arm chair Dr. Strangeloves.

[infowarrior]

1.2 billion. You don't like hearing that? You think it has worn thin? What has worn thin is arm chair Dr. Strangeloves.

I am no longer willing to risk my grandaughters' futures, either individually, or collectively by being frozen into inaction by this constant harping drumbeat that there are 1.2 billion Muslims, and we have to kiss their collective patoots, or else! Learn that, and live that. It was tiresome when Ibrahim Hooper tried to use it, and it's even more tiresome now. It is extortion, plain and simple, and I am not about to knuckle under to it. And as far as your other point goes, of Islam being a religion, the answer is hogwash! Islam, as dictated by the koran (for the third time, for possible penetration) advocates, and participates in genocide by the same Convention you, yourself, quoted. Now, unless you are willing to extend to Islam what would not be extended to any other organization, that totally and effectively removes any and all First Amendment considerations.

Neither the Constitution, nor the Convention, as has been stated before, are suicide pacts. Islam, if it wishes to survive, will reform, or the saner portions of the world, in self defense, will render it harmless, or if necessary, extinct. Nothing armchair Strangelove about that, just a simple statement of fact.

the infowarrior

[infowarrior]

Revelations is in the Old Testament.

BTW, you'd have a lot more credibility if you looked at your Bible (assuming you own one) before posting something like this. You'd find that Revelations is most definitely *not* in the Old Testament, but is the final Book of the New Testament...

the infowarrior

[willyboyishere]

Great Steyn piece, and you are right, the quote from General Napier from decades ago is a great one, one still
pertinent to this ongoing clash of cultures.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

"We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die."

Whose god could be such a delicate flower that he/she/it would be humiliated by one person not believing in him/her/it?

And what pathetic god could actually find a sense of protection by the murderous actions of Man?

The similarity between Islamofascism and all other totalitarian regimes is that they all have greater faith in Man ruling the world than God.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

What was done to the Germans and Japanese was not genocide... Ridding the Earth of Muslims will be genocide on a scale unmatched by Genghis Khan, Mao Tse-tung, Josef Stalin and Adolf Hitler put together. And you want to advocate that?

Genocide is in the intent. We did not intend under any and all circumstances to annihilate the Germans and Japanese or subject them to physically intolerable conditions. But if the populations had resisted, as many Japanese island garrisons did, to the last man, then we at that time had the will, power and intention to exterminate them. The effect would have been genocide, but the responsibility for it and the intent to make it necessary and happen would have theirs, not ours.

Allowing Christian converts to live is not a physically intolerable condition to impose on the Muslims. We would not allow a religion of human sacrifice anywhere in the world. Killing someone because they change religions is a form of human sacrifice. Its ending is and should be an existential condition from our point of view. They on the other hand have the priviledge of dying to a person for their "religion" if that is their wish and the responsibility is on their heads.

[ontos-on]

you are out of line. I said "be the strong horse". It was Lurker who posted a mushroom cloud. I only xorrected your error and pointed out that MAD did not apply anymore. So get yourself down off your high horse of impotence. Being "the strong horse" will be much more effective.

[ontos-on]

Unless I am wrong, Steyn did not say "most people" did he. I checked the article before I posted and I saw Steyn only quote Bin Laden and that is what I posted. The difference is big. One is a statement about people per se; and this is accentuated by the further claim that they do it "by nature".

Your language changes that and presents it as an empirical assessment subject to further evidence and questioning. These two approaches make all the difference in the world as to confidence and the basis for the assertion.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I am no longer willing to risk my grandaughters' futures, either individually, or collectively by being frozen into inaction by this constant harping drumbeat that there are 1.2 billion Muslims, and we have to kiss their collective patoots, or else!

Willing or not, you don't have much choice, unless you figure on going out and buying Weapons of Mass Destruction and delivery systems of your own. Learn that and live that.

1.2 billion you would cheerfully kill, you say for your granddaughters sake. How fearful and full of hatred you must be. Even Adolf Hitler wasn't that ambitious.

[ontos-on]

Yes, accuse the opposing side in an argument of having only the most extreme solution. It is called the straw man. It is a favorite tactic of leftists. "be the strong horse"/

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I'll be the end with horse's head. You've got the other end covered.

[ontos-on]

Yes, another favorite tactic when you are out of argument and reason: name-calling. How impressive! Are you in the 5th or 6th grade?

[ontos-on]

name-calling is definitely being the weak horse.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

No, I'm out in space, boy.

[truemiester]

We did.

It is becoming curved by PC retoric, soft due to underminning from the inside and limited in movement by an overabundace of illegal organisms.

Yeah, we used to.

[truemiester]

I think we should.

Its the price of admission in the real world.

[infowarrior]

Willing or not, you don't have much choice, unless you figure on going out and buying Weapons of Mass Destruction and delivery systems of your own. Learn that and live that.

And, *there* we have it. The extortion has you cowed, and since the tactic seems to work, they will continue it...

the infowarrior

[Cannoneer No. 4]

It is not extortion and I am not cowed. The technical means to kill 1.2 billion Muslims without killing huge numbers of non-Muslims does not exist. You can fantasize and preach your own spittle-flecked version of reverse-jihad genocide until you get banned from FR. That's on you.