Posted on 03/14/2006 1:43:37 AM PST by Dyaus Pitar
That's the nice thing about having a blue-water Navy... you can handle contingencies that weren't envisioned when the ships were conceived. CV's = Blue Water.
On this premise I most certainly agree with you. the Chinese (Han) model is one of homogenization. The Indian model is one of living in harmonious diversity. I prefer the Indian model, especially if one of them is going to have a great deal of influence on the world. Let's hope our conjecture is correct.
What a load of misconstrued malarkey. This is not even close to history, just complete conjecture from someone who obviously is not educated on the matter and didn't even bother to do basic Internet research. First of all the many scholars think Rome fell in 476 AD, so I am not sure of the point you are making using that date.
Secondly, the Han Dynasty was basically contemporaneous to Rome and was equally advanced.
Thirdly, I am not sure what your definition of "advanced" is, but if it is a matter of technology, you have failed to make any counterargument, and if it is a matter of wealth/productivity, China was clearly richer, accounting for the plurality if not the majority of global production for most of the last 2000 years. It was only since 1820 that this has not been the case. Unlike you, I also am happy to supply some evidence to confirm my point: http://www.mcgraw-hill.co.uk/tpr/chapters/1591397154.pdf
You're up if you're up to it.
Skipping insults and starting from the top what does the above quoted, not really a sentence, mean?
Just a thought - in ten years the CVN may be obsolete, replaced by subs launching UAVs. If'n I were the PLAN, I would concentrate on next-generation technology, not "catch-up" technology.
If they build it with the crap Chinese screws Home Depot sells, we don't have a thing to worry about.
What do you not understand about my reply? You are claiming that a civilization that fell is one that was more advanced. That seemed a bit odd. But, since you are clearly going to lose this debate, I suggest you scuddle off with you tail between your legs.
I will assume you changing the topic to the precise date of the fall of Rome means you concede defeat in the question of whether the Chinese were the world's most advanced civilization.
Though what you say are also true, the typical notion of "civilization" begins with writing and continuous records of literature/history. In this sense, Chinese civilization is indeed 4000-5000 years old. They are still using their hieroglyphic writing system. A college educated Chinese knowing only the Chinese language can read original source documents dating at least 2000 years ago. This is not possible for the English who are not trained in Latin or Greek, much less the Native Americans. So Native Americans don't have 15-40K years of continuous civilization.
The Chinese pretty much also had calendar, government, sciences, roads, bridges, buildings when Rome was around (around time of Christ)... They even had a meritocracy (exams)... explains why Chinese immigrants in the US today do so darn well on standardized tests. Chinese are a test-taking culture, which in the long-run is conformitory and curbs creativity.
One thing they didn't have was the alphabet. They still don't. But I believe alphabet was originally Phoenician? Someone confirm me.
that is correct.
Chinese government was always feudal, Chinesse never advanced much in Government, Rome was a republic at least for a while, even as an Empire there was citizenship and individual rights. Rome had pretty close to modern day pluming, pretty close to modern day roads, concrete bridges and concrete piers and was just beginning to enter an industrial revolution. China wasn't even close.
I disagree on your conjecture that Rome was so much more advanced than China's Han Dynasty. The Han Dynasty had massive roads, unified metrics and standards, unified language and script, paper, paper money, treasury, adjusted tax system, benign law code, centers of learning, libraries, massive cultural export to its neighbors, music theory (pentatonic scale), patrons of arts, state supported religion (mix of indigenous Taoism and Confucianism). All the makings of a powerful civilization.
Clearly Rome and Han were contemporaries of their time, and of their regions.
But that was a long time ago.
The Chinese had their own calendar that was a Solar-Lunar mix. After the Commies took over, the Chinese abandoned that calendar for the Gregorian. Chinese "New Year" is based on the first day of the Chinese calendar. The East Asian world all used the Chinese calendar until the last century, much like the European world all use the Gregorian. But now everyone uses the Gregorian because of western world's superiority in the past 150 years, not because of Rome's superiority.
INDIA was the first civilization to have sophisticated plumbing. Not Rome nor China. Han Dynasty was very close in development in almost every aspect to Rome. Me thinks you've been watching Gladiator too many times.
There are IMHO three great civilization, Egyption, Grecco/Roman and Chinesse. Of the three IMHO the Grecco/Roman was the most advanced 400AD. Chinesse civilization never really collasped and in a way Grecco/Roman civilization never really entirely collasped either (We are it). Sadly the Egyptian civilization did collaspe and die due to Islam.
I was going to say something about India, I really should learn more of Indian history.
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