Old Europe Fades Away

TCS Daily ^ | 3/9/2006 | James Ringo

[Atlantic Bridge]

Interesting.

As one of those old Europeans I have to say that the lack of fertility has its start in a wrong understood emancipation of women. The typical work of women inside of families in not respected by the European societies since the beginning 70ties anymore. There is no benefit of social prestige if a woman is mother to a multitudinous family. In fact kids are a problem in the hedonistic contemporary society. Espechially in west Germany, were there is a lack of suitable childcare for ideologic reasons (the recent conservative gouvernments wanted mothers to stay at home) and young women have no possibility to do a job and have children at the same time.

The only ones who manages to steer against this development are the French! Their socialist governments are offering good and cheap childcare services with the effect that every woman has about 2 kids just like those in the US.

Being a academic educated man and living in good ole Europe I am quite familiar with women who refuse to multiply. The proportion of childless academic women is around 40% here in Germany. During the time I attended univercity nearly all my girlfriends (I had a few) told me that they only want to become pregnant if it will be compatible with their career. Since being pregnant and having kids is never compatible with careers, quite a lot of them never will have a own family.

Another effect of this standpoint is, that others of them are desperately trying to get pregnant when their time to be fertile is simply over after they reconsidered the whole thing. Not all couples are able to get kids when they hit the 40ties.

Last but not least many men simply do not want to have children anymore when they are 40, 50 or even 60. Since it is typical that many woman are much younger than their husbands it can be a real problem for men to start a (new) family in their mid 50ties. I wouldn't do that either. Besides there is a broad movement among European men to renounce traditional families because the divorce rate is at nearly 50%. It is not funny to be a cash cow. The changed moral conditions made it easy in western Europe to live with girlfriends without being married. Nobody cares about the sexual behavoiur of others as long as no one has to deal with material loss or damage.

I am among those who did it quite traditional. I am married to the nicest and prettiest girl you can think of and our three wild little boys are the proof that it was worth doing it.

The funny thing is, that we have many childless female friends with academic grades in their late 30ties, who are absolutely crazy about my kids. Sometimes the boys are really fed up with their "aunts" trying to kiss them all over. Although of course they like the expensive gifts, they hate being a substitute for some frustated friends of ours. We even had to cool down some relationships a bit. Do not get me wrong - not all women are that way, but some are for sure.

I think it is a fact that human nature can not be tricked. If a woman decides to live without her own kids (this can be very reasonable in some cases) she usually has to pay a bitter price.

To me it is a paradoxon that this development never was that grave in America. Although you have also less kids/woman since the apperance of the birth-control-pill there is still a stable quotient over 2 kids/woman.

Besides - watching European immigrants it is interesting that their high fertillity rate shrinks to normal European conditions after the 2nd generation that is living in Europe. That means that Turkish women i.e. have not more kids than German ones with the moment they have intgrated into the German/European society.

[ChEng]

I think that France and Germany have come to the realization that the U.S. has written Europe off. The troop pullouts, letting Europe be humiliated in their dealings with Iran and Bush insisting that Turkey be admitted to the European Union (not unlike that special Mafia kiss, before, you know what), pretty much sends a message to Europe where we think they stand in the world food chain.

As an "ally" what do they offer? For what reason or cause, including self-defence, would Europe take up arms, serious arms? The answer, NONE..

The writer, while mentioning the death spiral demographics, fails to mention the emigration of millions of the native young, skilled and the monied to greener pastures, people which America and the free world will "cherry pick". Would you wish to raise a family and hope to prosper in a country such as the Netherlands or France?

The writers last hope is for assimilation, which I don't see happening, other then the natives converting to Islam.

[Atlantic Bridge]

It is nice of you guys over there to help us out, but I do not think it is the male part of the job that is a problem here. :-)

[dennisw]

good post ... thanks

[ClaireSolt]

I pointedly asked a friend visiting from the Netherlands about this. She agreed that as far as she is concerned Europe is overpopulated and could lose some people to get more space. When Friesan farmland is going for $60,000/acre I have to say that I see their point.

[Caipirabob]

The bad news from Europe is that its birth rates are low, far below the level needed to maintain the current population. The worse news is that the Europeans are not fighting it.

More accurately, Sociliasm is so highly punitive to support, that taxation rates have driven European families to consider finances before family, or face crushing poverty. In fact, in order to maintain some resemblence of a middle class, Europe is compelled to open the gates to unchecked immigration, in such vast numbers that assimilation into European culture is impossible. It cannot be stopped, either, because the need for slave-like labor is required in order to sustain the poverty-level jobs and provide what's left of the middle class an example of what will happen to them should they shirk the responsibilities for the taxes leeched from them. In addition, societal decay and corruption of traditional morality via religion has excellerated, depriving individuals of necessary duidance and even meaning in their lives. Thus the common man or woman are not even interested in pursuing the required foundational building block required to maintain a culture, the family. And as such, the light of Europe is slowly burning out.

[Atlantic Bridge]

If you think so.

You seem to have detailed information about Europe and its realities (deep..deep..sarcasm).



The fact is that the political and millitary relationship between the US and Europe is not that important for both sides anymore. The threat of the Soviet Union, that kept us together for over 50 years, is gone. Therefore each side of the Atlantic has the freedom to deal its own games in the meantime.

We should not forget that the US were a occupying power in Germany until 1989. The relationship was not on the same eye height until this moment. No chancellor would ever have opposed US foreign policy until then. The recent clash between the US and Germany over Iraq was a sign that Germany is free to do whatever it likes. That was not always that way. (This has nothing to do with the necessity to free the world from Saddam Hussein - personally I have a very different stance than Schroeder)

The troop pullout is something that is wanted by a large majority of the German and European public. Recent polls showed that over 80% (I do not have it here anymore but I remember it - it was in the German press although it is no big issue) are convinced that the current US deployment (offical around 70.000 in the moment and in fact maybe 25.000 through the Iraq war - compared to roundabout 250.000 to 300.000 during the cold war) should be reduced to a suitable number that represents the threat to Europe. Therefore the planned reduction to around 25.000 men until 2014 is just fine with me. Even if more Americans are going it will be no problem for us since the current deployment has nothing to do with the direct security of Germany. The DoD is using its bases as a safe harbour for operations all around the world.

BTW - the millitary alliance between Europe and America was always soley defensive. You just have to read the NATO treaty. Therefore for preemptive strikes like Iraq America only can try to set up "coalitions of the willing". That is what happened already. Our home defense can be done by ourselves. In the moment there are that few GIs in Germany that our army, the Bundeswehr has to help you out to guard your barracks. Therefore the current contribution of America to European security in not very impressing anymore.

Do not get me wrong - I am deeply thankful for the American help for over a half century. The Berlin airlift, NATO and the friendship between Germans and Americans are no empty gestures to me. Anyway some premises simply changed and our policy should react on it without too many emotions. This will be the best way to keep a good relationship without overstraining each side of the Atlantic.

[Lazamataz]

Dear Mr. Drill
We'd rather be extinct.
(signed) The Women Of Europe

You are lucky that's all you got. I got:

Dear Laz A. Mataz,

You are in violation of Georgia Penal Code 16.339.39, by breaking the court order concerning your parole, numbered 97-43992, and dated 2/18/1997. In it, it clearly states that you are not to have any contact, conversation, or exchanges in any fashion, including written, oral, or electronic device, with any woman whatosever.

You are directed to report to the nearest Parole Office immediately for questioning.

Signed,

The State of Georgia

[muir_redwoods]

It was blindness, not death , that Dylan Thomas was warning against and it is blindness to the threat of islamofascism that Europe suffers from. They need to open their eyes and see the threat. If they can't be bothered to see what's in front of them then we will all have a real-life example of how Rome fell from cultural exhaustion.

[son of caesar]

What you posted is all well and good, but there is one concern I have most urgently. If Europe does indeed become islamic since euros dont want kids, then who will cook my snails? You may laugh, but cooking snails is a fine art and I dont think snail eating is allowed in islamic countries, do you?

[Atlantic Bridge]

Escargots my friend. Escargots.

Here are two of them being involved in a typical French engagement which should be done more often without those ugly little birth-control pills over here. :-)

If someone needs a recipe - I can help out. Although I grew up in southern Germany we had a French nanny that made really yummy escargots (We collected them by ourselves in the meadows).

The funny thing: To my knowlege this tasty real French dish is absolutely not haram for Muslims (something like non-kosher to the Jews). Interestingly Jewish people do not eat snails or frogs as far as I know.

[George W. Bush]

The sick man of Europe is Europe...

Great twist on a classic phrase.

[FreedomPoster]

>>The only ones who manages to steer against this development are the French! Their socialist governments are offering good and cheap childcare services with the effect that every woman has about 2 kids just like those in the US.

Is that really so? Or if you delve into the demographics, is it not more true that every culturally French woman is having 1-2 kids, while every culturally Muslim woman is having 3-5?

[T Ruth]

Americans do not have any grounds for smugness on this topic. The problem is the same here.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Is that really so? Or if you delve into the demographics, is it not more true that every culturally French woman is having 1-2 kids, while every culturally Muslim woman is having 3-5?

It is a fact that white christian French women have roundabout the same birth rate than females in the US. The reason for it is also clear: In France it is possible for women to combine a professional career with having a family. This is a advantage German or Italian women do not have.

The 1st generation of Muslim women that immigrated into Europe have indeed 3-5 kids. Some of them even much more. The funny thing is that the daughters of those women only have one or two kids. No matter if they are still believing muslims or not. Antibaby-pills are obiously not only efficient on christian women. Since many kids cost money and muslims have the same wishes on consumption like Christians they limit their offspring to a reasonable number. That does not mean that we do not have any problems with the muslim minority, but the thesis of Europe getting a "Eurarabia" is dumb propaganda-BS.

[grey_whiskers]

More accurately, Sociliasm is so highly punitive to support, that taxation rates have driven European families to consider finances before family, or face crushing poverty. In fact, in order to maintain some resemblence of a middle class, Europe is compelled to open the gates to unchecked immigration, in such vast numbers that assimilation into European culture is impossible. It cannot be stopped, either, because the need for slave-like labor is required in order to sustain the poverty-level jobs and provide what's left of the middle class an example of what will happen to them should they shirk the responsibilities for the taxes leeched from them. In addition, societal decay and corruption of traditional morality via religion has excellerated, depriving individuals of necessary duidance and even meaning in their lives. Thus the common man or woman are not even interested in pursuing the required foundational building block required to maintain a culture, the family. And as such, the light of Europe is slowly burning out.

So THAT's what Bush is up to, with his open borders and outsourcing. Paving the way for Hillary, as his father did for Bubba.

[dennisw]

I pointedly asked a friend visiting from the Netherlands about this. She agreed that as far as she is concerned Europe is overpopulated and could lose some people to get more space. When Friesan farmland is going for $60,000/acre I have to say that I see their point.

I keep hearing stories of Dutch dairy farmers that immigrate here and do well. They come for the cheaper land plus many Dutch are sick of the Islamicization of Europe. Dutch are also headed to New Zealand and Australia

We need to increase our European immigration and decrease our Muslim and 3rd world immigration. Legal immigration has been outlandishly tilted to the 3rd world since 1966. 80% so. And that doesn't count the 3rd world illegal aliens jamming in there. It's an outrage. Tons of educated English speakers from Europe and East Europe would love to immigrate

[Porterville]

The European Governments is like a nagging old b*tch... It is no wonder why their people choose cultural suicide.

[NewJerseyJoe]

You'll notice that the original article never mentions abortion. Not once.

[moatilliatta]

I've never understood the obsession with European birthrates on here. The EU has one and a half times the population of the US in less than two-thirds of the area, and with a lot less natural resources. Where do you expect us to put all these extra people you think we should be producing?