Videotaped rape suspect is free

Chicago Sun Times ^ | 3/4/06 | DAN ROZEK AND MONIFA THOMAS

[wagglebee]

And it seems like at least two of these rapists fled the country to avoid prosecution.

[MarkL]

If she was drunk then she couldn't consent.

This is something that I've long wondered about...

If a woman is drunk, then she's not able to consent to have sex, i.e. she is NOT responsible for her actions.

When a man is drunk, why is it that he's responsible for his actions when having sex? Is he able to consent? Actually, I've seen this sort of scenario... When I was in college, a buddy of mine has being stalked by this crazy girl, who he wanted nothing to do with. Well, at a party one night, he was stone drunk. I'm not kidding... He actually fell down a flight of stairs, and didn't know where the bruises on his back came from the next day. Well, this girl cornered him, and they wound up having sex. I don't know if she was drunk or not. Was he able to consent to sex with her, since he was drunk? Should he have been held responsible? Of course, had she come back with a rape charge, there would have been a roomful of people stating that he tried repeatedly to get away from her, to the point of shouting "LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE!" But he eventually gave in. Hmmmm.... I wonder if he could have charged HER with rape...

Mark

[rcocean]

I find it disgusting too, but you don't put people in jail for having disgusting sex.

You have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. They had a tape that showed the girl gave consent.

And sorry,the girl bears some responsibility for the situation. I find it absurd that we hear about how tough women are, they can be fighter pilots, boxers, and POTUS, etc. but somehow they can't be held responsible when they get drunk and have sex.

[starbase]

In the article it says that some of the guys were spitting on her after they were done. It sounds to me like she was gang-banged.

Some women often make this mistake (though no Freeperettes do, of course!) that because the man did something rude afterward, then that is a crime. A woman's attitude is not a law.

Unfortunately sex has always had, and always will have, connotations of use and abuse, of one having "had" the other. That's the nature of sex. And that's why girls in particular must be careful where and with whom they have sex. (Why girls in particular? Well, they seem to get more emotional after the fact, and so should protect themselves from suffering needless pain.)

I was living in Boulder, CO and one girl pressed rape charges against a young Norwegian student. The reason she gave for pressing charges was that she walked by him a few days later and he gave her a haughty look. She said "I don't want him to be able to do this to anyone else.". Clearly, just as your "spitting" example, the real motivation is that the woman wanted to interject emotional combat into a sex act. The young man was acquitted.

We must take this weapon away from girls, because I won't live in a society where such a devastating attack can be launched on me by an immature person with a child-like vendetta regarding actions she, more often than not, was a co-participant in. We must teach our American girls that they cannot just do anything and demand anything. Many do not do this and never would consider such a thing (those would be the hot conservative babes!). But it is part and parcel of PC and damages all of society, probably the girls who wind up hurting themselves, more than anyone else.

[Ohioan from Florida]

That's hard to say. I'm not saying that being drunk gives a girl a free ride to have sex without consequences, but there's a point where someone goes from just a little buzz to down and out drunk. I don't think someone of either sex can give consent if they are really drunk. If the girl was the one in the encounter leading the sex, then I think he would have had a case for bringing charges against her. I don't have a problem saying that either party could be charged with rape if the sex wasn't consented to. People don't have the right to go forcing themselves on each other.

[WorkingClassFilth]

Somebody's Daddy ought to have a little talk with somebody else's brat - with a bat.

[Ohioan from Florida]

I do believe you're right that girls wind up hurting themselves the most by engaging in risky behavior. I also believe that there are guys out there who do not respect a girl's right to say no, and do with her as they damn well please. Still doesn't make it right.

I will also say that you are right that there are some girls who are mean and nasty and will go after a guy for retribution. That is despicable behavior as well. If that's the scenario in this case, then the jury did a good job.

I'd like to get the message across to people of both genders that you can't just do anything you want.

[wagglebee]

Clearly, just as your "spitting" example, the real motivation is that the woman wanted to interject emotional combat into a sex act.

Are you implying that the spitting was made up by this girl? They videotaped it, they also taped where they wrote vulgarities on her nude body.

[Sally'sConcerns]

I'm going to agree with you in that I don't believe what happened was actually rape. Without viewing the tape or actually being present while this cr@p was taking place, I'm going to throw out what my idea of the scenario was.

She was drunk and she was so drunk she more than likely wasn't making any sense. More than likely she would have thought most anything anyone suggested would have been a grand idea. I really think she was straddling the fine line between passing out and being totally inebriated.

I've dealt with people in this state before. About the time you think they've passed out, they say or do something to let you know differently (and in most cases people dealing with them use a few choice curse words because they want them passed out because they're causing problems awake). The males had been drinking too.

Without seeing the tape I don't have a clue what, if any signal or signals she may have given to the guys. She may have said or done something which could have been open to interpretation...I don't know because I wasn't there.

I guess the best analogy I can give is some drunk being on the verge of passing out yet still capable of being melodramatic and yelling, "Kill me, just kill me! I deserve to die. Just do it, I don't care how, just kill me" and on and on and on until they pass out. Of course the whole rant is done in a slurring, drunken incoherent manner.

No one is going to kill that drunk. On the other hand, get a group of drunk teenagers and if some female is doing the same thing except about sex, there's a strong chance at least one of the guys is going to take her up on it. Get a group of guys egging each other on and they may very well take their turn. Is it gross? Is it awful? Is it nasty? Does it say alot about the character of the idiot guys? Yes, it says a heck of a lot. They're scum.

I would even venture to say she was passing in and out of consciousness while the guys were taking their turn. She may even have thought she was with only one guy. I believe she was that drunk because afterward they were able to spit on her and to write on her. I would venture to say she wasn't aware of what was happening when the spitting and writing was going on.

While what happened is horrendous, horrible, nasty and every other negative I can think of, it wasn't rape if she never said no. Also, she didn't deserve what happened either. And, if I'd had a daughter who had been treated like this I'd have wanted to extract punishment on the punks where they would have had a lifetime to deal with what they did.

Sorry for being so wordy.

[skaterboy]

It sends the wrong message (that) when the girl is drunk and unconscious, you may not be held accountable for your actions,'' said attorney George Acosta, who represents the woman in a pending civil suit against Missbrenner

the only one i see saying shes knocked out is her lawyer who trying to get some cash..

[skaterboy]

Are you implying that the spitting was made up by this girl? They videotaped it, they also taped where they wrote vulgarities on her nude body.

who videotaped it? the story said that happened AFTER THE TAPE ENDED if it happened at all

[skaterboy]

Sorry i misread it my fault

[wagglebee]

She reminded jurors that after the sexual activity on the tape ended, the girl was spit on repeatedly and sexual slurs were scrawled on her legs and abdomen with markers.

It is actually unclear whether this is on the tape or not.

[skaterboy]

Well two juries have found two guys not guilty so ill leave it up to them since of course we cant see for ourselves

[starbase]

I'd like to get the message across to people of both genders that you can't just do anything you want.

Yes, you're right. Of course some guys do force themselves on women who don't want them to. One friend of mine at work had a house party and it turned out that one of his longstanding male friends basically raped one of his longstanding lady friends while everyone was drinking.

She didn't file any charges, but no one involved ever talked to each other again. Pretty ugly affair. Some people stretch the truth to get back at others in court, and some don't use the law when they have a valid case. What can you do? "Somebody done somebody wrong." will forever be on the jukebox play list.

[starbase]

Are you implying that the spitting was made up by this girl? They videotaped it, they also taped where they wrote vulgarities on her nude body.

I'm not implying anything. I'm stating that neither of those two things is rape or proves rape. If you want to charge them with simple assault for spitting and writing, then do so.

[angelanddevil2]

If the girl was so drunk that she lost responsibility of her behaviour, that's also applicable to the boys, right?. I guess they were drunk too. Looks to me it was that kind of party, where everybody knew they were going to drink and have sex. Why did she go?. As for the part of child pornography, did she know it was being videotaped?. uh oh...I think everybody is guilty there. Everybody.

[angelanddevil2]

Completely agree with you.

[taxesareforever]

I thought sex with a minor was a crime. Apparently I was mistaken.

[Banat]

LOL! But you're absolutely right.