Virginia County secretly removes Confederate flag from official seal

The Daily Press, Hampton Roads, VA ^ | March 2, 2006 | Associated Press

[stand watie]

yet ANOTHER ignorant & hate-FILLED, fact-FREE comment from one of FR's worst DUMB-bunnies.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

yet ANOTHER DUMB & FICTIONAL comment from one of our resident dumb-bunnies = "JSU&TI".

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

NOPE! he does NOT know because he is clueLESS!

"JSU&TI" has swallowed the extremist, DY,SELF-righteous, REVISIONIST line, hook & sinker.

free dixie,sw

[4CJ]

Patterson must not have understood the intent of the Founders.

Let me ATTEMPT to understand your position, you aver that US Supreme Court Justice Patterson would not have understood the intent of the founders/framers?

William Paterson was from New Jersey. His son-in-law was Lt. Governor of New York and later US Senator from that state.
Justice Paterson was a delegate to the New Jersey constitutional convention in 1776 which wrote that states Constitution.
Paterson served as the New Jersey state attorney general from 1776 - 1783.
Paterson was a delegate to Continental Congress from New Jersey, 1780 and 1787.
Paterson served as a US Senator 1789 - 1790.
Governor of the state 1790 - 1793.
He was then appointed to the US Supreme Court in 1793, dying in office in 1806.

Oh, did I forgot to mention that he was a delegate to the Constitutional convention held in Philadelphia in 1787. His signature appears on the US Constitution as "Wm Paterson".

Next I guess, you'll be telling me that US Justice John Blair, cited in that same case, "must not have understood the intent of the Founders'.

That's his signature on the Constitution from Virginia! He was a delegate from Virginia, the state that sent James Madison. Blair was a delegate to the Virginia ratifying convention.

Get a life, get a clue, get an education. They understood the founders intent because

they were both FOUNDERS.

[4CJ]

The terrorists they support were more dangerous to our Nation than Osama yet they claim to somehow oppose him.

Lies from from your fingers daily! What terrorists? What terrible deeds did they perform, what skyscrapers did they bomb? What Christians did they kill?

The Confederates were made up of men like Thomas J. "Sonewall" Jackson who - gasp - started a Sunday School for blacks. I'll bet that struck fear into the hearts of everyone </sarcasm>

Terrorists? Who's a terrorist, the man that taught slaves about God, or the yankees that wiped Southern towns off the face of the earth, men who admitted that their deeds - based on their training at West Point - were war crimes and deserving of death. Who's a terrorist, Jackson, who continued to send money during the war to further the education and Christianity of blacks, or the yankees that waged war on women, children and old men, destroying their homes, food and livestock, stole their possessions, leaving a swath of devastion beyond imagination?

So who should we believe, some crackpot Hamiltonian worhipper named JustShupUpAndFakeIt who idolizes men who boast that they were 'not bound by the laws of war to give notice of the shelling of Atlanta', and that the 'extermination, not of soldiers alone ... but the people' was his objective?

Or should I consider the words of former slave Rev. Willam M. Lee, who wrote AFTER the war of Robert E. Lee, 'I was raised by one of the greatest men in the world.'

[4CJ]

Patterson was referring to the only possible legal way such a course could be done he was not saying New Hampshire could do it.

So what did Paterson really mean when he wrote, '[i]f she [New Hampshire] would not submit to the exercise of the act of sovereignty contended for by Congress, and the other states, she should have withdrawn herself from the confederacy'?. Where does he write that the state must petition Congress for permission, beg at the feet of the other states, or in any way receive permission from any force on Earth? In plain English, Paterson writes that if New Hamspire wanted to secede, the decsion to do so and the act of withrawal were for her and her alone.

Some sir, to put it politely, would say that you are more than a few fries short of a Happy Meal, and have a 'Baghdad Bob' attitude towards the crimes perpetuated by the north. I'd simply say, 'Bless your heart.'

[Non-Sequitur]

He was a money-hungry fool, who used his office to line his own pockets...

Surely you have something to support this claim?

[TexConfederate1861]

"The Union next to our Liberty, most dear"

Senator John C. Calhoun

[TexConfederate1861]

Go worship at the Altar of your "God" Lincoln
I prefer freedom, the way the Founders of our Republic MEANT it to be.

[A Jovial Cad]

Just so you know, JSUATI, lentulus is engaging in the kind of typical distortion that is the typical modus operandi of the Lost Cause Squad.

I did not "repudiate" capitan: I repudiated what he did. He made a serious error in judgment, and it cost him his FR account. I did not "crawl on my belly" to anyone: I asked an anonymous Admin Moderator to remove a post of mine that had been rendered superfluous by capitan's mistake.

It is, of course, quite easy to beat up on a party who is no longer around to defend himself: that is "chivalry" for you, I guess, as defined by the Lost Cause Squad.

And it is very telling that lentulus here cannot address one issue I raised in the earlier post I made to you and M.Espinola, but can only manage to dredge up one incident from a year or so ago, and about a poster who is no longer around to defend himself.

[M. Espinola]

What's the difference between the a**holes who host the Southern pro-slavery website?

And "Confederate Vice President" Stephens own words?

Note: By the time of the Civil War, Stephens owned 34 slaves and several thousand acres.

A portion of the infamous Cornerstone Speech delivered extemporaneously by Alexander H. Stephens, in Savannah, Georgia, March 21st, 1861:

"With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place."

"He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system."

When Neo-confederates support their hero Alexander Stephens, they support his "cause" of maintaining plus expanding the economic slave empire of the defeated Confederate political régime.

You can't have it both ways.

[TexConfederate1861]

Don't change the subject. The issue here is whether Southerners can suport their heritage, and be opposed to the way the Union forced us at bayonet back into a forced "union", and still be loyal to our country today.

Alexander Stephens was expressing a common viewpoint of tha day. The Sh*theads on that website are trying to make a case for slavery TODAY. Big difference. By the way, Stephens was a personal friend of the "Yankee" God, Abe.

[M. Espinola]

I am in no way altering the subject, but focusing on the core issue. If some Southerners still want to support the very foundation of the defeated insurrectionist Confederate political crowd, which was broadening the geographics of slavery, the cornerstone of the Confederate's Cotton Empire, that is their right as Americans. Some "heritage"....

Alexander Stephens was expressing the root cause of that element he was a part of in triggering full scale civil war in this country - slavery. Otherwise why did he bother making such statements?

In terms of the low life verminoids operating that pro-slavery website, boldly displaying the Confederate flag, they have a reason for not printing a return address location, it called being cowards. This is the same redneck trash which is still ticked off racial segregation is no longer "legal".

I realize Stephens was a friend of Old Abe, which does not say much for Old Abe's discernment.

[TexConfederate1861]

You and I have discussed before, and you have conceded, that most soldiers fighting for the Confederacy were not figting to preserve the institution of slavery. (Including Robert E. Lee) Preserving slavery was only one of the reasons. to most, including Lee, it was for much more personal reasons. Those idiots on the website dishonor the Confederate Flag, but that is unfortunately their decision.

[Gianni]

The "Peace" which followed was not ratified for another two years but was no less real than the Union which had won it in spite of incomplete paperwork.

The "Peace" which followed was formalized in the form of a treaty between Great Britain and thirteen independent states.

His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.

[Gianni]

YOu believe a state can create an American not born within the US?

Let's look back at what you originally wrote:

Since citizenship was granted through the federal government it did create a new people, the America people. One could not even be a citizen of a state without first being an American. States were subordinate in ALL important matters to the federal constitution. -- Fakeit

Prior to A14, this was not true at all.

[M. Espinola]

I will admit we have indeed discussed the issue previously and I will concede the little guys, the regular shmoes were giving a song and dance by the Confederate politicians and the majority although maybe not owning slaves themselves nevertheless fought for the 'cause'.

In terms of Robert E. Lee, he was made an offer to lead his country's military and he wrongly fought in a leadership position for the pro-slavery insurrectionist bunch, no matter his personal beliefs. To his credit he also knew when enough was enough and spared men on both sides by surrendering.

Not all Southerners fought for the Lost Cause, that issue has been made abundantly clear on various threads through those from the South whose ancestors remained loyal to their country.

The rodents on that pro-slavery website only reinforce the image of dirt ignorant Klan types with their little rebel flag. Why would they use that flag over all the banners in the world? Stephens speech says it all.

I know you do not favour nor agree with the insane position of those creeps.

[Non-Sequitur]

The issue here is whether Southerners can suport their heritage, and be opposed to the way the Union forced us at bayonet back into a forced "union", and still be loyal to our country today.

How do you reconcile the two? On the one hand you claim to be an occupied people, conquered and forced into a country against your will. On the other hand you claim to be loyal to the very country that you claim is occupying and oppressing you. It does seem to present a contradiction.

[Non-Sequitur]

The Confederates were made up of men like Thomas J. "Sonewall" Jackson who - gasp - started a Sunday School for blacks.

He didn't start it, he continued it. And I'm not sure what your point is. The south was filled with churches who believed that bringing Christianity and the teachings of the Bible to slaves was part of their calling. Jackson's actions weren't out of the ordinary. So he taught a Sunday school for slaves, several of which belonged to him. What is that supposed to make him? Does that somehow make him a better man? Or counteract his belief that slavery was the right and proper place for blacks? Y'all keep dredging that school up as if it makes him into some kind of saint. It makes him nothing more or less than a typical religious, slave-owning southerner. One who believed slavery was worth fighting for.

[TexConfederate1861]

Easy one...

1. We were occupied and forced into a Union against our will. However.....

2. Time healed the wound to a degree, Southern blood has been spilled in every major conflict since then, and when blood is spilled, it tends to cement relationships.

Does that mean that forcing the South to it's knees was wrong? YES.

The Government that exists today is not the same as in 1865. I know that personally, I and most of my family have served this country, to one degree or another. That doesn't mean we like what was done in the past.