Posted on 02/17/2006 5:47:19 PM PST by Mobile Vulgus
I don't know how many of you get the Federalist Patriot report via email, but it is a great source of conservative news and opinion that all of you should get.
You can find their site at:
http://patriotpost.us/
Anyway, even though I support them, they sent out an email today that bashed Abe Lincoln fiercely. I was so moved to annoyance by their biased and ill thought out email that I had to write them and say how disappointed I was.
You can go to their site and see the anti-Lincoln screed that they put out to know exactly what I am replying to if you desire to do so.
Now, I know some of you freepers are primo confederate apologists so I thought this would stir debate on freerepublic!!
Now, let the fur fly as we KNOW it must...
Try again. That clause is there to ensure that the Senate representation remains equal for all states, no one state can be underrepresented or overrepresented. If the state is expelled then it is no more entitled to representation in the Senate than Canada or Belgium. So what prevents that from happening? I'm not aware of anything in the Constitution that says the states cannot expel another state, so that must be a power reserved to them through the 10th Amendment. Right?
hehehehe.....I wasn't pinged :)
Davis doesn't come close to ole "honest Abe" (barf)
Can YOU point to one that can prove that secession is not allowed?
I've never said secession was not allowed, only unilateral secession. And I can point to a whole host of implied powers that support my position there.
Now answer my question. If unilateral secession is allowed then what in the Constitution prevents unilateral expulsion?
Davis once said, "...the true and only test is to enquire whether the law is intended to and calculated to carry out the object...If the answer be in the affirmative, the law is constitutional." By his definition then, Davis never committed an unconsitutional act in his whole term in office. And neither did Lincoln.
Why would anyone need to deprive them of "equal suffrage in the Senate"? Their Senators could be there and vote against the "eviction" resolution if they choose, but if the Union is not permanent, and as you insist, a state can leave any time it chooses, it only makes sense that a state can be evicted any time the other states chose.
It is you who insists that the United States as nothing more than a club with voluntary membership. That being the case, I see no reason that members of that "club" can not be expelled.
It's a waste of time, these people are arguing in favor of the destruction of The United States by using the same instrument that created the United States.
It's something they have in common with Muslim extremists who would stand on the Constitution to destroy the Constitution and ultimately the nation.
To this day, they are upset that their rebellion was crushed, that slaves were freed, and that the nation was saved from their destruction.
They violated every principle that created the Constitution that they freely signed, violated every principle that created the nation that they freely helped tp create, and 150 years later, they can't accept the fact that they lost the war, that their dream of a slave-owning Confederation was crushed, and that the nation they sought to destroy rose to become the greatest nation in the history of the world.
To argue that secession was a right, is to argue that the right to destroy this nation exists...it didn't then, anymore than it does now.
No one has a Constitutional right to destroy this nation.
Yep.
Can't have it both ways.
The federal Constitution is applicable to states that are members of the union. The clause listed above does not prohibit secession.
Please see #306 above. A state cannot be expelled.
Try again. The clause specifically states that it must be with the states consent. In your liberal reading of a living Constitution you can find whatever penumbra and emmanation your heart desires, but the clause in no way is a guarantee of equal representation - that's Article 1 §3 ['The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State'].
So, you support the destruction of this nation.
Is that right?
Please. The entire quote is this,
The true and only test is to enquire whether the law is intended and calculated to carry out the object; whether it devises and creates an instrumentality for executing the specific power granted; and if the answer be in the affirmative, the law is constitutional.If either Constitution granted a power, and that law was pursuant to that delegated power, then the law was constitutional.
President Jefferson Davis, 29 May 1862, 'Letter to Georgia Governor Joseph Brown', Correspondence Between Governor Brown and President Davis, on the Constitutionality of the Conscription Act, Atlanta, GA: Atlanta Intelligencer Print, 1862, p. 18
No. Only a liberal woul think that secession would DESTROY the nation - the nation would remain, absent that seceded member.
Well stated, which is exactly why the Articles of Confederation were not applicable to these states. It's a red herring to say "Florida and Alabama" violated the Articles of Confederation; they never agreed to adhere to this document. They agreed to the Constitution of the United States (which in fact, incorporates some of the concepts of the Articles of Confederation).
They were allowed to join only with the permission of the other states.
As stated in the Constitution, Article IV, Section 3.
They were, in effect, created by the other states through a vote in Congress.
Disagree here. The states were already in existence, but they petitioned to join the United States of America.
Nothing.
For some reason, you always seem to throw Davis into these discussions. He is not the subject here. What Davis did or didn't do is not even an issue. I am asserting that Lincoln was a despotic Tyrant. What Davis did is immaterial to the discussion.
A very strange comment that carried to it's logical conclusion would blow your states-rights position to hell.
By agreeing to abide under the constitution new states agreed to all of it's tenants and were granted identical privileges and responsibility as the first 13 states. There is no "Seniority" clause in the Constitutional provision to admit new states and no "greater" or "lesser" states based on longevity. All are equally bound under identical conditions be it Delaware or Hawaii.
That's becuase it doesn't exist even for the states. Those who advocate secession or the right to do so are traitors to the republic.
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