Posted on 02/17/2006 5:47:19 PM PST by Mobile Vulgus
I don't know how many of you get the Federalist Patriot report via email, but it is a great source of conservative news and opinion that all of you should get.
You can find their site at:
http://patriotpost.us/
Anyway, even though I support them, they sent out an email today that bashed Abe Lincoln fiercely. I was so moved to annoyance by their biased and ill thought out email that I had to write them and say how disappointed I was.
You can go to their site and see the anti-Lincoln screed that they put out to know exactly what I am replying to if you desire to do so.
Now, I know some of you freepers are primo confederate apologists so I thought this would stir debate on freerepublic!!
Now, let the fur fly as we KNOW it must...
..I've got Southern roots all the way back to the boat, so I can say this with authority--you have to just let it go or it's going eat you up--it's over--we are one nation--let's move on.
Were you on the ticket with Lincoln?
What sources do you have that the fire-eaters worked to put Lincoln in power? I assume you refer to Barnwell, Rhett, Cobb, etc.
free dixie,sw
Glad to see you back in the fray. You are the most effective argument for my side that I could conceive of.
This was the intent of the Charleston Convention and why the RAT party was split and ran three candidates. Nevins history of the Rise of Lincoln goes into it as well as describes the treachery within Buchanan's cabinet on the part of the two of his officers.
Luis Gonzales might have a link to more about that. It was part of a long-standing conspiracy to split the Union.
The dementia is too far gone for stand to get help. Go back and look at his remarks. There is clearly no hope.
Nice. Personally I enjoy watching watie work his way through 200 messages all at once, responding to every fifth one or so with another line from his stock repertoire.
the johnson administration did NOT say what it WAS, however.
free dixie,sw
are you trying to take "m.eSPINola"s place as out resident DUMB-bunny????
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
most people here think your posts are laughable.
free dixie,sw
If you have name of a book or paper about the conspiracy - I am interested. I have studied Catton's work about the candidates....Breck, Davis, Douglas. Rhett hammered away at the Mercury, I can't remember who Yancy was stumping for (perhaps himself).
You are correct, of course. Lincoln didn't take office until March 4, 1861, by then SC had already seceded. Lincoln did everything in his power to conciliate, but the South wouldn't hear of it.
All 7 of the Deep South states had seceded before Lincoln took office and already had formed the The Confederate States of America and named Jeff Davis as President with the capital in Montgomery.
Then, when Lincoln tried to resupply the garrison at Ft Sumter, even after assuring SC he was only supplying them with provisions, not men or arms, they launched a pre-emptive attack. Clearly, Lincoln was not a war-monger.
I agree stand.......he could have vacated Ft. Sumpter when he saw this thing coming to a head. I have a great debate going with jsuati (I'm lazy :)) I still maintain the South HAD and BELIEVED they had the right to succede. BTW, Hub and I went to Vicksburg in January. A very humbling place indeed.
I see it different, jsuati.......their livlihood was being threatened. I HATE slavery, it shouldn't have EVER happened, but by the same token, when you have generations of a certain mind-set like the plantation owners and Southerners at that time, they felt cornered. I am glad the slaves were freed, even though THAT was not the reason for the war, but look how long it took for them to be TRULY free. That war was a waste of human lives and there's enough blame to go around........on BOTH sides.
I've read the entire debate on Foot's Resolution...interesting (but long) :-)
I just came across this and wondered if you'd ever seen MR. MADISON'S REPORT OF 1799?
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This is the crux of the Constitution. In order to understand it, you have to know several points of law
The Founders, in order to protect our freedom, devised a very clever system.
The People were sovereign. That meant they could act if they wished, as long as they never did another human being physical or financial damage. To cement these rights further, they used natural law, or the horizontal laws of the Decalogue. Human beings are natural persons, and are subject to natural law. You can't murder, lie, cheat, steal or conspire to do so. This was also called common law.
The next type was civil law. Civil law still follows common law, but is more of a man made law interacting directly with the People. This is where legal 'persons' are created. State citizens are legal, civil 'persons'. States are created by civil law.
( When the Founders said 'citizen of the United States', they MEANT a citizen of one of the States. There was no such thing as a 'US Citizen')
Next comes the Federal government. Such wise men the Founders were! The federal government was created by statutory (state..get it?) law for a municipal government for the federal enclave and other Constitutionally enumerated areas, but NOT the entire country. It became a national government, but only where it was given the power to do so by the Constitution. Ten miles square meant just that!
This is what caused the major rift. Federal law began to encroach on civil law OUTSIDE the areas enumerated in the Constitution.
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The Alien and Sedition Acts were the main objection. Passed in 1798 declared that the publication of "any false, scandalous and malicious writing," was a high misdemeanor, punishable by fine and imprisonment
Needless to say, this assault on freedom and speech were not taken lightly.
Congress had apparently been poking it's nose over the line.
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Mr. Madison's Report was written in committee Dec., 1799 and presented to the General Assembly of Virginia, Jan. 7, 1800.
Now whether the phrases in question be construed to authorize every measure relating to the common defence and general welfare, as contended by some; or every measure only in which there might be an application of money, as suggested by the caution of others, the effect must substantially be the same, in destroying the import and force of the particular enumeration of powers, which follow these general phrases in the Constitution. For it is evident that there is not a single power whatever, which may not have some reference to the common defence, or the general welfare; nor a power of any magnitude which in its exercise does not involve or admit an application of money. The government therefore which possesses power in either one or other of these extents, is a government without the limitations formed by a particular enumeration of powers; and consequently the meaning and effect of this particular enumeration, is destroyed by the exposition given to these general phrases.
(Providing for the common defense and general welfare in the Constitution is a single power, not two separate powers.)
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Then it continues:
In the third place, whether the common law be admitted as of legal or of constitutional obligation, it would confer on the judicial department a discretion little short of a legislative power.
Madison's findings:
A discretion of this sort, has always been lamented as incongruous and dangerous, even in the colonial and State courts; although so much narrowed by positive provisions in the local codes on all the principal subjects embraced by the common law. Under the United States, where so few laws exist on those subjects, and where so great a lapse of time must happen before the vast chasm could be supplied, it is manifest that the power of the judges over the law would, in fact, erect them into legislators; and that for a long time, it would be impossible for the citizens to conjecture, either what was, or would be law.
(The Judicial power of the Constitution was intended as a court for the federal enclave and a mediator between the states. It never was intended to make *law* for the entire country.)
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From your post:
The Constitution of the U.S. being established by a Competent authority, by that of the sovereign people of the several States who were the parties to it,
Notice how Madison puts the people FIRST? We are created by nature, and superior to (most) man-made laws.
These are followed by the civil authority of the State.
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it remains only to inquire what the Constitution is; and here it speaks for itself. It organizes a Government into the usual Legislative Executive & Judiciary Departments; invests it with specified powers, leaving others to the parties to the Constitution;
Specified powers. ONLY those listed.
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it makes the Government like other Governments to operate directly on the people; places at its Command the needful Physical means of executing its powers;
Directly on the people (federal enclave and enumerated places).
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and finally proclaims its supremacy, and that of the laws made in pursuance of it, over the Constitutions & laws of the States;
Proclaiming its supremacy DOESN'T mean it can exercise UNENUMERATED powers. It is still subject to the above limitation of specification and superiority of the States and the People who created it.
No, but they were trying to overthrow his government in America.
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