Parents, Students Fine With Math, Science

AP ^ | 02/15/2005 | Ben Feller

[Euro-American Scum]

WASHINGTON - Science and math have zoomed to the top of the nation's education agenda. Yet Amanda Cook, a parent of two school-age girls, can't quite see the urgency.

"In Maine, there aren't many jobs that scream out 'math and science,'" said Cook, who lives in Etna, in the central part of the state. Yes, both topics are important, but "most parents are saying you're better off going to school for something there's a big need for."

Nationwide, a new poll shows, many parents are content with the science and math education their children get — a starkly different view than that held by national leaders.

Fifty-seven percent of parents say "things are fine" with the amount of math and science being taught in their child's public school. High school parents seem particularly content — 70 percent say their child gets the right amount of science and math.

Students aren't too worried, either, according to the poll released Tuesday by Public Agenda, a public opinion research group that tracks education trends.

Only half of children in grades six to 12 say that understanding sciences and having strong math skills are essential for them to succeed after high school.

This comes as congressional leaders, governors, corporate executives and top scientists have called for schools to raise the rigor and amount of math and science in school. In his State of the Union address, President Bush made the matter a national priority.

Yet where public officials and employers see slipping production in the sciences as a threat to the nation's economy, parents and students don't share that urgency.

"There's energy and leadership at the top, but there is a task to be done in getting parents and kids to understand some of the ideas," said Jean Johnson, executive president of Public Agenda. "You can do a lot from the top, but you can't do everything. Schools are local. The leadership needs to reach out and help the public understand the challenge."

This week, Bush said, "We can't be the leading country in the world in science and technology unless we educate scientists and young mathematicians." A panel of top scientists and business leaders has warned "the scientific and technical building blocks of our economic leadership are eroding at a time when many other nations are gaining strength."

As for parents and students? In theory, they say, more math and science would be good.

For example, 62 percent of parents say it is crucial for most of today's students to learn high-level math, like advanced algebra and calculus.

The story changes, though, when parents talk specifically about their kids' schools, and when the children relay their own experiences.

Students put a lack of science and math near the bottom of problems they see at school. They are much more worried about bad language, cheating or the pressure for good grades.

Most parents, meanwhile, say their kids are getting a better education than they did. Only 32 percent of parents say their child's school should teach more math and science.

If anything, parents are less worried about math and science these days — not more.

In 1994, 52 percent of parents considered a lack of math and science in their local schools to be a serious problem. Now, only 32 percent say the same thing. During that time, states ramped up standards and testing, which seems to have affected parents' views.

The findings are based on telephone interviews with a nationally random sample of 1,342 public school students in grades six to 12, and of 1,379 parents of children in public school. The interviews were done between Oct. 30 and Dec. 29. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 3.5 percentage points for the students and 4 percentage points for the parents.

[Euro-American Scum]

Bush said, "We can't be the leading country in the world in science and technology unless we educate scientists and young mathematicians."

And that's a very hard sell when the best and the brightest of our young people who would ordinarily go into these fields know full well they will go into debt to the tune of $100,000 for the privilige of not making a living at it.

Why work for third world wages and no bathroom breaks when you can be suing some deep pockets corporation as part of the legal profession -- the last growth industry the country has left.

[calex59]

In truth, we need to start teaching history(american) and civics once again. These subjects used to be required but are no longer because it makes it easier for the left wing jerks to brain wash our children.

[voletti]

Totally agree. Math and science at the school level needs to happen strong. Let the better performing students takeup honors classes and advance faster than others. As for the huge cost of science edu at the college level, some kinda a subsidy may well need to be worked out.Else leave it to folks who can do it cheapest - the Asians. Most R&D is anyway not done in universities anymore. Its more corporations and specialized govt institutes.

[capt. norm]

"In Maine, there aren't many jobs that scream out 'math and science,'"

I guess that, in Maine, the jobs are screaming out for Burger Flipping 101, Lawnmower Repair, Tire Changing, Dog Washing, and, of course, 'Social Studies'.

[D-Chivas]

I remember in the mid 90s when the Clinton Administration tried to limit the number of medical students seeking to go into specialties. For them it was, "learn math and science, but don't become a medical specialist."

[Bommer]

"In Maine, there aren't many jobs that scream out 'math and science,'" said Cook, who lives in Etna, in the central part of the state. Yes, both topics are important, but "most parents are saying you're better off going to school for something there's a big need for."

How about gutting fish, lobsters and moose?

[Jacquerie]

Learning how to learn is the most valuable life skill that young students can learn. While the vast majority will find little practical use for calculus and applications in physics and chemistry, the mastering of abstract concepts at an early age renders the later adult unafraid of challenges.

[Physicist]

In 1994, 52 percent of parents considered a lack of math and science in their local schools to be a serious problem. Now, only 32 percent say the same thing. During that time, states ramped up standards and testing, which seems to have affected parents' views.

It is my belief, based on observation, that Americans put less importance in science and math than they used to. It's not that they think education has improved, it's that they mind less that it has not.

[From many - one.]

Take a look at starting pay in the sciences vs. the cost of education.

[Physicist]

LOL, tell me about it! But that always was the case, at least compared to many other professions.

The growing indifference--even outright contempt--for science and for scientists is something new.

[luckystarmom]

Our district closed my kids' old school which used to be a science magnet. At the new school, science is considered an enrichment program and they are barely doing anything with it.

I'm looking into homeschooling because the education at the new school is so poor.

[LibFreeOrDie]

"In Maine, there aren't many jobs that scream out 'math and science,'"

As of a year or two ago, the fastest growing "industry" in Maine was social services. So, if the trend continues, your career will either be working in social services, or receiving social services.

[MikefromOhio]

The kids are capable of learning the material I think....

It's a matter of getting the idiot parents to PUSH them to learn it. Kids don't know what is best for them, especially when they are teens. They don't have the life experiences to know what they will need later in life.

ONLY the parents can determine and guide them.

[From many - one.]

Back when Russia scared the bejeesus out of us with Sputnik we found the money to get our kids through grad school without crushing debt.

[capt. norm]

My mother called me to let me know that my niece had just landed a government job, as if that was life's highest calling.

I don't argue with Mom for two reasons. First, she is my mother and secondly, she outranks me. (not easy for a retired sea captain to deal with)

Like many in her age group, a getting a government job is second only to becoming a doctor, lawyer, etc. In this particular case, my niece selectively moves documents, etc. from point A to point B. That's it!

As nearly everyone on this forum knows, some decent hardware and programming can (and will) replace her in a heartbeat.

I guess my point is that having a job that can be easily automated, doesn't say anything nice about your abilities. It's like taking the easy path.

[Think free or die]

Our sons are in 5th and 7th grades. So far, my experience with our school district is that their math education has been pretty solid. Fortunately, they're both good math and science students, and they have been in enriched or accelerated programs whenever they've been available at their grade levels. When the textbooks were a bit lacking, their teachers have had the professionalism to supplement with outside materials to make sure basics were covered. We appear to have dodged the worst of the recent trend toward "new math" which is heavy on team learning and "practical, fun" concepts and weak on calculation.

On the science front, I've not been entirely happy with our district. It seems to me that at the middle school level, there's a bit too much teaching to the test which involves straight memorization. I'd like to see a greater emphasis on depth of understanding. The elementary school curriculum seems better in this respect. The units involve a great blend of reading, experimentation, observation and analysis. The kids like it, and they learn quite a lot. We also have an excellent nature center belonging to the school district.

I organized our elementary school's science fair for 4 years, and my husband and I have run an after-school robotics program for 4th and 5th graders for 3 years. That has given us the opportunity to meet many families who support science education. We've met a lot of parents who actively seek these opportunities for their kids and place great value on them. Interestingly, our school district population is increasingly composed of families who have recently emigrated from China and Korea. They are great supporters of our math and science programs, and our school orchestras. (Our son was one of very few blonds in the honors orchestra this year).

I expect that the quality of science and math education varies tremendously across school districts in America. Some are excellent, and others are falling behind. I'm glad to see the President addressing this. It's a step in the right direction.

[RightWingAtheist]

I'm not sure it's as recent as it seems. From what I've read both about and from the late sixties all the way through the mid-late seventies, that was a far more anti-science period than today was. People were rebelling against an "establishment" which included, to their mind, science and the scientific method, and all the benefits it had provided. And when the environment became a hot topic again in the late eighties, there was a lot of anti-science sentiment again. What's different is that now, the media actually, finally cares about the anti-science attitudes which exist in certain segments of the population. I still question the sincereity of their concern, since they seem to be less interested in finding a constructive solution to the problem than in using it to score political points, by condemnning a vast swath of the population (particularly those in "Red" communities) as being illiterate yokels (meanwhile, the anti-science and anti-reason attitudes of the reality-based community gets a pass from them).

[From many - one.]

In the early 60's, when I was a grad student, the funding of research meant that none of us in the sciences paid to go to school. The good ones got research fellowships, less good and you'd get a teaching fellowship, and really good, a scholarship. We graduated without debt.

[Think free or die]

"From what I've read both about and from the late sixties all the way through the mid-late seventies, that was a far more anti-science period than today was."

You may well be right. There have been great advances in technology in recent years that seem to generate interest in technology among youngsters. Biotech, nanotechnology, robotics, communications, etc. My experience with our school science fair and robotics program has been that kids and their parents are very interested in applied technology. When they are presented with basic science, they sometimes turn off because few scientist or teachers are really adept at presenting the material in a captivating way. Part of the challenge for parents and teachers is to help students translate their interest in new applied technologies into mastery of the necessary basic math and science.

[ga medic]

I am pretty sure that American History and Civics are required courses for high school graduation. I know of no public school where this is not the case.