White House under fire over Cheney shooting (A Citizen informs the Press, how dare they!!!)

MSNBC ^ | 2/13/06 | MSNBC Staff

[roses of sharon]

Maybe so, trolls DO like to lecture!

[TheForceOfOne]

He basically does now, the Fox All stars add to the flavor.

But I know what you mean. He is the best Fox has to offer.

[STARWISE]

reminds one of when Bill Clinton injured himself at Greg Norman's FL. place...MSM never questioned it one bit.

Exactly. And the press wasn't with him when it happened; he snuck away and they didn't find out until the next day when he came to Air Force One to fly home.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nor ANY real details of medical exams.

[TheForceOfOne]

You weren't there, you're speculating or taking the first version of a story which is usually incorrect.

I'm sure Dick Cheney will tell you all you need to know about it along with the injured person in the hospital. You can wait, or speculate.

[lugsoul]

And roses can't help but lie.

[Fido969]

My first Valentine gift to my wife was a 6oz. bottle of Hoppe's. Needless to say, we were a very happy couple at the end of the evening. (wink)

Polished yer pistol, did she?

[lugsoul]

If you have reason to doubt the report of the eyewitness that the VP authorized to release the story to the press, state your reason.

All one needs to know to determine that the VP is the responsible party is that it was his shotgun, in his hands, that shot a member of his hunting party at a distance of 30 yards or less. There are very few ways this would not be the fault of the shooter (i.e. the person runs and dives in front of the muzzle as the shot is fired), and there is no indication from anyone there that this happened.

I haven't seen you scolding the numerous folks on these threads who rely on the same eyewitness account to try to blame Whittington. Apparently your criticism of the source depends on whether the person citing the source thinks hunters ought to follow basic firearm safety rules. If they don't, you seem to be fine with the eyewitness account.

[Wild Irish Rogue]

"Both Clinton and Norman have been downright ugly when asked about the details."

Lt Col Buzz Patterson indictated in his book, "Dereliction of Duty " that Clinton fell in the driveway, after a night of drinking .
I recall seeing a photo that one of the ER nurses took with Clinton and his face was bright red and he looked completely wasted.
The hysterical , overwrought girls of the White House press corps illustrated perfectly today why VP Cheney was wise not to tell them earlier.
They acted like Cheney had been a sniper in the Texas Tower .
Today's press corps theater was akin to a very unfunny SNL skit.

[Wolfstar]

Ron P. Reagan (as he likes to call himself) is back to calling dog shows on Animal Planet.

[StAnDeliver]

"Poor Scotty's been looking like he badly needs a vacation."

Somebody give this guy a "Deputysomethingoranother" job and get another Ari up there who could reliably take that asshat gregory down a full notch every single day.

If Scotty Mac were halfway up to speed he would listen when that sob gregory predictably runs over to Imus the next morning and titters like half a queen as he tries to persuade Old Cancerbutt that he, gregory, is the greatest poseur the Beltway has ever seen.

But to cut to the chase, gregory also consistently reveals his biases and weaknesses on Imus (like so many other NBC MSM DUmmies -- Chrissy, Rusty, Andrea Mitchell, Matt Laurer, et al), and anyone who dares get up on that WH podium had better be prepared every day to exploit every last one of those biases and weaknesses -- and Scotty ain't up to the job.

[Cobra64]

The Vice President can use this to his advantage. The next time a reporter asks a stupid question, Cheney can invite him to go hunting.

I'll better you that concept.

I think VEEP should bring his 12 ga Beretta on the podium. And when being questioned, he could sweep, and say, "Who's next?"

I'd send a lot of dollars to the NRC to se that.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

When someone goes through surgery like the VP’s, and even if they are younger than the VP and in better general health, it’s nor uncommon for them to experience subtle changes in perception, memory and/or personality – sometimes these are transitory, sometimes stable, and sometimes somewhat progressive - it's a well known complication of such procedures. Mr. Chaney is a flesh and blood human like the rest of us, and his status as VPOTUS in irrelevant to whether he might experience such problems, and that’s the perspective – as someone who has been intimately involved with people I care about in such decline, from which I found myself reading these reports.

One of the things you want to watch for in evaluating such situations is decreased ability to successfully perform established learned behavior – for example, maintaining good field discipline when hunting. Another is personality change, something that’s also been reported, on several occasions, by observers who have known the VP for years.

In their more subtle forms none of these are individually diagnostic; in combination they can be suggestive of decreased ability, and in my experience one of their common manifestations is that individuals who find themselves diminished in such ways are often the last to observe - or at least acknowledge – the problem.

Now, we know that in this case what happened was not an “accident” (say, a member of another hunting party suddenly topping a rise); it was a “mistake”.

We don’t know what human factors contributed to that mistake (though without prejudice to those involved in this one, “alcohol” is the first thing that would pop inot the mind of an experienced investigator) but we know it was a *fundamental* mistake – one of the primary rules of field disciple is that you must know where other members of your party are located, or you don’t track a target, let alone pull a trigger – and that it was a serious error that resulted in an injury sufficient to put someone I intensive care, and on that had it occurred a closer range on a different kind of hunt could have produced even more serious injury or even death – it’s an event that ought to be taken seriously.

So if this was a friend or relative of mine, what I’d watch to see is this: does Mr. Cheney opt to put himself and others in this situation again – he was a mature individual when this occurred, his judgment is as good as it’s gong to get, he was as much control over attitudinal factors as he’s ever going to have, and his physical capacity is only going to be decline in form this point out – so like a driver who puts the car through the garage door he ought to suspect he’s putting himself and others at risk if he gores out into the field again, and from my perspective if he chooses to do so, something is wrong, and perhaps seriously wrong.

YMMV.

[Cobra64]

Polished yer pistol, did she?

Yupper, she wears a Freudian slip, never let's the pork roll, and always needs to hide the salami.

When I'm on the road, she'll send me an email telling me to, "give youself a hand."

When I come home, I just say, "Bend over, I'll drive."

[Cobra64]

You sound like a winner! Thank you! /sarcasm

[OldFriend]

You are not a doctor but you play one on FR.

IMO, you are an idiot.

[TheBattman]

It just blows my mind how much of a non-story this really is.

First - similar hunting accidents happen far more often than most folks realize.

Second - the news was reporting that the "victim" was in intensive care - since when?

Next we have the "why didn't the White House tell the world? bunch.... Ummm.. legal proceedure was followed - the local sheriff was immediately notified and the incedent was quickly investigated/Cheney questioned.

What's witht he $7 special bird stamp? I didn't know Texas required such a stamp. Apparently, Cheney hunts at that ranch for quail regularly - shouldn't he know if he needs a special stamp? States that I am familiar with don't require a special stamp to hunt quail - just a hunting license which Cheney apparently had..... BUt again, this is a non-story.

The initial reports by the useless idiots in the media - that buckshot was used.... ummmm... that's just stupid.

[2nsdammit]

Speaking of buckshot vs. birdshot, I just saw a CNN reporter show, as a prop, a 12 guage shell with 00 buck. He poured the shot out in his hand, and said "this is kind of like the shot he was 'peppered' with"....

I believe the Veep had a 28 guage, with bird shot.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

IMO, you are an idiot.

If I’m an idiot, I’m an experienced idiot – for instance I’ve sat in the front seat next to a subtly neurologically damaged driver who appeared to functioning normally but who was unable to “perceive” a car approaching from the side – who could pull out from a stop sign into incoming traffic, cause an approaching van to do a tire smoking broady into the parkway, and proceed on his was oblivious of the fact – would insist that it could not possibly have happened, and become angry at the suggestion that it had - hardly my idea of an ideal hunting companion.

And I've also observed the personality and intellectual changes in another individual after such heart surgery - which in this case fortunately mostly reversed over a period of several months.

[proud American in Canada]

Get off your fat journalistic asses and stop waiting for press secretaries to spoon fed you stories.

I recently began working for a local weekly and I work very, very hard. You get out of it what you put into it, and literally every day of the week (I'm talking a seven-day week) I am doing something, and my shortest day is still pretty full.

I took a cab home tonight, chatted with the cabbie and found out about a lawsuit pending against the province: potential story to follow up on tomorrow first thing.

Local papers have to work harder because they don't get the constant flow of official information that the dailies get. Everything I do, now, like going to public community events with my family or on my own, is also an opportunity for news.

And oh, yeah....the whole operation is a one-man band. The husband is the editor, the wife is the office manager, and I am the one reporter. Sales and layout are part-time, but they work their you-know-whats off too.

[NittanyLion]

One of the women reporters at the White House today asked Scott McClellan "Would this be a bigger story if he had been killed?"

Seriously?!? Bwwwwaaahaaahaaa!