Their Own Version of a Big Bang: A creative & effective challenge to the "science" of Darwinism

LA Times ^ | 11 Feb 2006 | Stephanie Simon

[Greg o the Navy]

WAYNE, N.J. — Evangelist Ken Ham smiled at the 2,300 elementary students packed into pews, their faces rapt. With dinosaur puppets and silly cartoons, he was training them to reject much of geology, paleontology and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies.

[Greg o the Navy]

Bringing a sense of humor and in-your-face attitude to teaching the Creation Story will certainly make steam come out of the Secular Humanists' ears. I think this is great ... the kind of thing that can bury the lib shi*heads.

[Ronaldus Magnus Reagan]

I disagree. I think this is terrible. It's further proof that the hard-core religious right is an embarrassment to the conservative movement. When you ignore scientific evidemce in school, it's no wonder that the schools in the U.S. lag behind other developed nations.

[Renderofveils]

The only problem with his theory is that humankind can trace our time farther back than 6000 years ago. The Egyptian calender (360 days, with 5 uncounted days of celebration) can be followed back to BEFORE 3000 BC.

[Coyoteman]

"Boys and girls," Ham said. If a teacher so much as mentions evolution, or the Big Bang, or an era when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, "you put your hand up and you say, 'Excuse me, were you there?' Can you remember that?"

If that is the best the creationists can do, those who study evolution have no worries.

This fellow has absolutely no concept of the scientific method. (Does he have books to sell, or something?)

Here is just one tiny piece of the evidence in support of evolution:

---

Fossil: Sts 5 Site: Sterkfontein Cave South Africa (1)

Discovered By: R. Broom & J. Robinson 1947 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 2.5 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, floral & faunal data (1, 4)

Species Name: Australopithecus africanus (1, 2)

Gender: Male (based on CAT scan of wisdom teeth roots) (1, 30) Female (original interpretation) (4)

Cranial Capacity: 485 cc (2, 4)

Information: No tools found in same layer (4)

Interpretation: Erect posture (based on forward facing foramen magnum) (8)

Nickname: Mrs. Ples (1)

See original source for notes:
http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=24

[peyton randolph]

*PING*

[peyton randolph]

"So who should you always trust, God or the scientists?" The children answered with a thundering: "God!"

There's one born every minute - P.T. Barnum. Where do they find the rest of them? Religious cults.

[beaver fever]

"A former high-school biology teacher, Ham travels the nation training children as young as 5 to challenge science orthodoxy. He doesn't engage in the political and legal fights that have erupted over the teaching of evolution. His strategy is more subtle: He aims to give people who trust the biblical account of creation the confidence to defend their views — aggressively."

"He doesn't engage in the political and legal fights that have erupted over the teaching of evolution. His strategy is more subtle:"

He is engaged 100% in a legal and political struggle. The man is an ignorant demagogue. It's people like this that give conservatism a bad name. Creationists are no better than the Taliban and Al Quaeda.

They are preaching to the choir, just a different choir.

[Strategerist]

Always hard to get a sense of how many hard-core young earth types are left...

I wonder if that many have really gone awa, as opposed to just shut up out of embarassment and turned to shilling ID.

[Mulch]

Clarification please professor?

[crghill]

Estimated Age of Fossil: 2.5 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, floral & faunal data (1, 4)

And how did they pinpoint the age of the stratigraphic, floral and faunal data?

[LibFreeOrDie]

"you put your hand up and you say, 'Excuse me, were you there?'

With that as your criteria, you could dismiss all American history that occurred before our lifetimes.

[Coyoteman]

Go to the original article (follow the link) then check the footnotes. They will supply the details.

[VOA]

bump

[TheBrotherhood]

"With dinosaur puppets and silly cartoons, he was training them to reject much of geology, paleontology and evolutionary biology as a sinister tangle of lies."

And they are - ie, a single tangle of lies.

To have faith in evolution is to have a belief in darwinian dogma.

[Strategerist]

Also you'll find this informative:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-youngearth.html

[Ronaldus Magnus Reagan]

I loved the part of the article where he tries to explain the existence of modern-day dog breeds. He says..Well, there was an original master blueprint about 6,000 years ago and they evolved from that! You gotta love the hyprocrisy!

I'd love to see him try to dismiss the scientific process of carbon-14 dating.

[Wormwood]

Solipsism as science.

[SteveMcKing]

My 2 cents for tonight..... Molecular life manifests the same way that crystals organize. Creationist logic should dictate that God creates crystals directly, not by natural processes.

[Strategerist]

To have faith in evolution is to have a belief in darwinian dogma.

The age of the earth and evolution are two different things. And geologists had pushed the age of the earth well beyond 6,000 years long before The Origin of Species was published.

[Coyoteman]

To have faith in evolution is to have a belief in darwinian dogma.

It's late and I haven't shaved, so I will post these definitions and check back in the AM for any replies.

Definitions (from a google search, with additions from this thread):

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)

When a scientific theory has a long history of being supported by verifiable evidence, it is appropriate to speak about "acceptance" of (not "belief" in) the theory; or we can say that we have "confidence" (not "faith") in the theory. It is the dependence on verifiable data and the capability of testing that distinguish scientific theories from matters of faith.

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices."

Proof: Except for math and geometry, there is little that is actually proved. Even well-established scientific theories can't be conclusively proved, because--at least in principle--a counter-example might be discovered. Scientific theories are always accepted provisionally, and are regarded as reliable only because they are supported (not proved) by the verifiable facts they purport to explain and by the predictions which they successfully make. All scientific theories are subject to revision (or even rejection) if new data are discovered which necessitates this.

Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics."

Model: a simplified representation designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process.

Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence). When a scientist speculates he is drawing on experience, patterns and somewhat unrelated things that are known or appear to be likely. This becomes a very informed guess.

Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information.

Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

Impression: a vague or subjective idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying."

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

Observation: any information collected with the senses.

Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions.

Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact.

Religion: Theistic: 1. the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2. the expression of this in worship. 3. a particular system of faith and worship.

Religion: Non-Theistic: The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life.

Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith.

Faith: the belief in something for which there is no material evidence or empirical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or observation. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof.

[Last revised 2/9/06]