Cartoon of Mohammed.
Posted on 02/10/2006 10:30:16 AM PST by SirLinksalot
"Ali would have used up Marciano in about 6 rounds ..."
That's not entirely clear to me, and I'm old enough to remember watching them both on TV (although at the time Marciano was very near the end of his remarkable career). Marciano was very much like Joe Frazier; he was 4 or 5 inches shorter than Ali and liked to fight, relentlessly, on the inside. This would have given him the same advantage that Frazier used in his (one) victory over Ali.
Heard a guy say the other day his Democrat dad didn't believe the US really landed on the moon, but thought wrestling was real...
DITTO
When heroes are few and far between...
When I was very very young I saw a Sonny Liston workout at the White Cliffs (resort) in Plymouth, Massachusetts. It was before the first scheduled (later postponed) fight against Clay. I was very impressed.
The autograph that I got from him was from a pad which he simply tore off and handed to me which had his image and preprinted signature.
I threw it away, and that was the last time that I was ever near anyone or anything involved with "professional" boxing.
It is a brutal sport that is rife with corruption.
i'd have to disagree with you...Marciano was MAYBE 5'10 and a good 30 lbs lighter than Frazier...Marciano wouldn't have been able to walk through the jabs like Frazier did.
Walcott( jersey-joe ) totally rocked* Marciano when they fought...walcott wasn't as fast/nor did he punch as hard as Ali...and Walcott was probably close to 50 when he knocked Marciano down.
"Walcott ... totally rocked Marciano when they fought ..."
Yes, in the first fight between them, but remember that Marciano eventually KO'd Walcott in the 13th round. In the rematch, Marciano KO'd Walcott in the 1st.
Don't get me wrong - I admired Ali tremendously as a fighter, and he may very well have beaten Marciano two out of three fights, like Ali's record with Frazier. But it isn't entirely obvious to me that he would have fared worse than Frazier did - very similar styles and physiques.
I also liked "Sarah Doctor" who was an Olympic skier or something.
Always wanted to say: "Is Sarah Doctor in the house?"
:-)
Most boxing experts these days are so enraptured by Ali that they continue to pass off Ali's "KO" punch as legitimate. Now I remember a few years ago I was watching a roundtable of boxing experts discussing that punch. Angelo Dundee said it was the real thing. Then the late Don Dunphy said, "I'd like to congratulate Angelo on his sense of humor."
Why Ali might have won: He was taller and heavier than Marciano and had greater reach. People remember how Ezzard Charles, in their second fight, badly ripped Marciano's nose and could possbly have won on a TKO had Marciano not pulled out all the stops and flattened Charles in the 8th. Ali's jab might have taken its toll on the Rock.
Why Marciano might have won: Rocky was at least Ali's equal in the areas of durability, stamina, and courage. He had the type of crowding style that Ali had trouble with. And Rocky threw many hard punches during a fight.
>>The only people who think the punch was legit are Ali-worshippers.
I've been a boxing fan for a long time. Although I respect Ali's boxing abilities, no one would ever accuse me of being an Ali worshipper. I'm more of a Joe Frazier fan.
A number of years ago, Boxing Illustrated did a frame-by-frame analysis of the Liston knockdown. It completely convinced me that the knockdown was legitimate (although I'm not convinced that Liston couldn't have gotten up).
Several things could be clearly seen in freeze-frame:
It was a counter right which only traveled about a foot over Liston left arm which he was returning to his body after a jab. From the angle of the punch, it is very likely that Liston never saw the punch coming which boxers will tell you are the punches that do the most damage. He was completely unprepared for the punch's impact.
Liston was moving forward so that the impact of the punch would have been magnified. Liston had a tendency at times to lunge with his jab which got him off-balance which is what happened here. In common terms, he walked right into the punch.
Ali had both feet planted and was in perfect balance so he was able to get his full body weight into the punch. It appeared to catch Liston right on the point of the chin (the sweet spot for boxers) where the jawbone acts as a lever to cut off blood flow to the brain resulting in temporary unconsciousness.
All these things aligned in a "perfect storm" scenario to make what seemed to be an insignificant punch into a very substantial punch.
Immediately upon impact, you could see Liston's shoulders hunch and his hands drop as he slowly started to fall. The reaction was too instanteous to have been faked. The evidence from the freeze-frames was clear: Liston was clearly knocked down by the punch. I don't know why he didn't get up. I don't think that he was that hurt. My theory: a well-trained fighter (which Sonny Liston most certainly was) is taught to stay on the canvas, pick up the count, and arise at around 8. Liston got up before he was counted out and resumed fighting. It was only then that Jersey Joe Walcott was informed that he had picked up the count at the wrong point and Liston had in fact been down for 10 seconds.
Cartoon of Mohammed.
I carefully studied the film- didn't take long. I remember the fight broadcast. A few items of interest here though. Robert (Bob) Goulet sang the anthem. Goulet got his start on Canadian T/V. He flubbed the words- a portent of things to come.
Then the time keeper gave the time of the knock-out. It was "one minute of the first round". That was a new quick record for the division. Previously it was Tommy Burns of Canada, who knocked-out Jem Roche in Dublin,1908. This was timed at 128 seconds, for a then heavyweight record.
I timed the fight commentary, which I had on tape. The fight was still being broadcast at about 2:38 seconds. I will never forget Referee Walcott, the former champion. He trotted over to Nat Fleischer of the Ring Magazine- a spectator. "What do I do Mr Fleischer" he was alleged to have said.
Ah memories, memories.
good analysis...
pretty much how i saw the punch too...Liston was totally open and Ali was in total balance, same way his short punches down a tired Foreman...much sting.
And have seen similar punches since.
For those who missed this in November, Ali may have only months to live.
I would say that the Rock's chin was pretty much in the same category as Ali's. Rocky, like Ali, would bounce right up after a knockdown.
Sorry for the mistake. Thanks to Google. Tommy Burns of Canada knocked out Jem Roche of Dublin, in 88 seconds of the first round- including the count.
Hi ES.
How come you know so much about boxing? My Dad LOVES boxing. We
watched every Ali fight. This interests me only because it reminds me of my Dad
...AND... I saw something yesterday about the Ali legend being a myth.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.