'Torino' vs. 'Turin': Anglicized name of Olympic city wins argument here

The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 02/09/2006 | Ellen Fagg

[presidio9]

For this very reason I always refer to Nu-ku-lar power.

[Red Badger]

West of the Rockies....You're on the air..........

[dangus]

>> How about PO-lice, and DEE-troit? :-) <<

oh, PUHHHleeeze!

Seriously, CA, you make a good point: French words (and Police, Detroit, and Offense are all French words) create a difficulty: In French, syllables are accented evenly, or the unaccented syllable is subsumed entirely. Usually, in American English, we subsume the unaccented syllable (P'lice, D'troit, etc.). In certain regions, however, because such syllables are not incidental to the root word, the first syllable is emphasized (POHlice, DEEtroit, etc.)

In the case of offense and defense, however, I think the general rule is to subsume the first syllable. But under certain circumstances, including sports, I guess the first syllable is not subsumed, and, hence it is accented, so that it can be clearly heard.

For instance, in court, it's plain that a person represents a defense, whereas an action represents an offense, so we subsume the first syllable; the d'FENSE rests, but the ofFENSE doesn't.

In sports, the words are almost always spoken to delineate between the offense and the defense, hence, the first syllabe is usually accented.

[IronJack]

The same -- generally -- holds true in British English. The verb form tends to accent (that's "ack-CENT") the second syllable.

[SoothingDave]

you make a good point: French words (and Police, Detroit, and Offense are all French words) create a difficulty:

I didn't hear one person at the Super Bowl refer to it as "Day-twaa" ;-)

SD

[dangus]

There's no way that it's pronounced Jenjiss Khan. The fact that there is an "h" after the "g" necessitates the use of a hard "g" sound (like the first "g" in "Garage."

Soft "g"s occur only following an "i" or an "e," although sometimes the "g" is still hard, as in "get"

Hence, the word is "JengGuiss Khan," or "GuengGuiss Khan," but never "Jenjiss Khan."

[dangus]

>> So, can we agree now that it will be the Peking Olympics? <<

No. I'll never agree that it will a Chi-com olympics of any sort!

[Aquinasfan]

"We use Turin in accordance with our long-standing style to use English names on English-language wires," Taylor explained last month in a wire service story. "It's the Shroud of Turin, for instance, not the Shroud of Torino."

And there lies the answer. The media wants to minimize Google hits on "Shroud of Turin."

[dangus]

>> I didn't hear one person at the Super Bowl refer to it as "Day-twaa" ;-) <<

Ha-ha! I can still never bring myself to say "Battn Rooj," though. New Orleans is one thing... they stuck the positively limey word, "new" in front of it, so how could I possibly say, "Noo ohrlah"? (The word, "N'ahrlins" breaks me up!)

[Aquinasfan]

I vote to deport anyone who, while residing in America, refers to "Nueva York."

Nueva Jorka!

[dangus]

>> So, since translation of placenames is in vogue, why, on US-produced maps, isn't Argentina listed as "Silverland," or its capital as "Good Airs," or Rio de Janeiro, Brazil as "River of January," or Montevideo, Uruguay as "Mountain View," or Santiago, Chile as "St. James," or La Paz, Bolivia as "Peace," etc. <<

I'm planning to tour Europe. I figure I'll visit Big Hot Dog (Frankfurt), Little Hot Dog (Vienna), Toilet Water (Cologne), Bubbly (Champagne), Ground Beef (Hamburg). I'll stay clear of Mini-Cabbage!

HHOK...

I like to stick to good ol' American states like Green Mountain (not Vermont!), Colors (not Colorado!), Flowers (not Florida!), and Mountains (not Montana!).

You owe the oracle a really small can of pop from Duluth, a New Outfit, a date with Mr. Ippi's wife, a land of un-deflowered ladies, and a 2000-pound load of laundry.

[SoothingDave]

An old NR article on this pronunciation phenomenon.

Last winter, I was thinking of starting a "Torino Watch." Why? Katie Couric was broadcasting from the Salt Lake City Olympics, and she was looking forward to the next Winter Olympics, to be held in . . . "Torino," she said. Why she said "Torino," instead of good ol' Turin, is shrouded in mystery. Would-be sophisticates are always saying "Torino" instead of Turin and "Milano" instead of Milan. But, oddly, they don't say Roma — except "when in Rome," presumably — and they don't say "Venezia" (Venice), "Firenze" (Florence), or "Napoli" (Naples).

...

The story's complicated, but Bangkok, to Thais, is not merely "Bangkok." In fact, it's not "Bangkok" at all. The capital has a long, long formal name, and, to make matters even more interesting, the Thai language acknowledges no spaces between words (within a sentence or concept). So, I give you "Krungthepmahanakhonamonrattanakosinmahintharaayuthayamahadilokphopnoppharatratchathani buriromudomratchan iwetmahasathanamonpimanawatansathitsakkathattiyawitsanukamprasit."

SD

[dangus]

Oops... Don't even tell me. Colorado is "the Color Red," not "Colors" (Colores).

[dangus]

... and come to think of it, I think "Florida" is "flower-filled," not "Flowers."

[SoothingDave]

Shoulda stuck to "Penn's Woods" ;-)

SD

[dangus]

>> Shoulda stuck to "Penn's Woods" ;-) <<

Naaahhh...

Untranslated all those places (Mountain View, Penn's Woods, etc.) sound like retirement homes. :^)

[ArrogantBustard]

You know, of course, that Dan Quayle beat Ted Kennedy at the spelling bee.

Dan knew that "harass" was one word.

Yukyukyuk...

[presidio9]

Seriously, I think there is a shred of truth to that.

[SoothingDave]

Untranslated all those places (Mountain View, Penn's Woods, etc.) sound like retirement homes. :^)

And not too far from the truth, either!

At least we here are generally pretty good Anglicisers. We let Duquesne slide by, but turned Versailles into ver-Sales and Dubois into DEW-boys.

SD

[presidio9]

Actaully, I think "Colorado" means "bloody sleeves" or something like that.