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In Praise of FR's freedom - from a progressive
by ClassConscious aka SoLongCrooks ^

Posted on 02/06/2006 7:52:43 PM PST by ClassConscious

Edited on 02/07/2006 3:38:17 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

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To: nopardons

Yes, you are a legend. Deal with it. ;-)


321 posted on 02/06/2006 9:49:22 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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To: nopardons; ClassConscious

But this is an unusual troll with vast untapped potential for intelligent thought....lol.


322 posted on 02/06/2006 9:49:43 PM PST by defenderSD (¤¤ In a battle of wits against a FReeper, the typical liberal is unarmed. ¤¤)
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To: ClassConscious
Anyhow, my point is this will not make me like capitalism any more, but I am very fed up with the Democrats and places like DU. They restrict freedom, make people follow a party line - and lose. You allow discussion, allow people to choose between Pertouka, Bush and whatnot - and win. Very sad.

I'm late to this thread and it may have already been said. You are asking about and seem somewhat confused about the fact that on this site, there is more freedom to discuss varied and opposing ideas.

The confusion and the answer lie directly in that point. We talk about other ideas, and use them to compare to what we believe and think about our own. We don't simply throw them out, we face them down and state clearly WHY those ideas are not as good as ours. I'm not saying that people don't get banned, this site does not suffer fools, nor those who come to disrupt and taunt with propaganda.

You are sad that we are winning, but this site shows why. We have learned who and what we are, we have learned to express and defend our ideas against all comers, and we exercise those skills by allowing other ideas in and find the logical reasons why it wont work, or might, or why our own plans and ideas are better.

How can we do that? It took some 40 or 50 years in a political desert, it took some very good people to take some very real political arrows by standing up and saying the party/movement/accepted conservative ideas were wrong on certain ideas. It took the same standing on ideas we thought right. It took taking the blows when the liberals painted us with their own brush on racism and made it stick, in some cases to this very day, and there was nothing we could do but take it and get on with life. It took learning how to express our thoughts, logically and clearly, with examples that allow others to see that logic, and real life practicing what we preached to prove it.

Oh, and one other thing, we grow in numbers because in spite of what others believe when they come to post their ideas, and stay and fight even as they are getting pummeled with the logic and skills I've described above, they often find their ideas were nothing more than the rote propaganda of a failed system, and when when it's attempted to lay it out in the manner that is required to argue it effectively, find that it simply falls apart.

That said we are not monolithic. I lean quite libertarian, and clash with some of the social conservative ideas. Other are quite sure that faith and a belief in a higher power is the answer to all. But we all talk, we all do it without clashing too much, and we all accept and learn that overall, we are much closer than we are apart.

/rant

323 posted on 02/06/2006 9:50:34 PM PST by kAcknor (Don't flatter yourself.... It is a gun in my pocket.)
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To: ClassConscious
If this thread is still going, what you need to realize is that conservative policies often (not always, but often) help the working class more than progressive policies because the conservative policies create a rising tide that raises all boats while the progressive policies often sink everyone's boat rather than see some rise faster than others. All I'd suggest is that you read just about everything written by Thomas Sowell but, in particular, his books The Quest for Cosmic Justice and A Conflict of Visions. These two deal with the fundamental differences between what conservatives and progressives believe about how the world and human nature works, which also explains why so many working class people are conservatives.
324 posted on 02/06/2006 9:51:38 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: ClassConscious
On a scale from left to right in terms of containing communism, obviously Democrats like him were not near the center, but over on the left of the spectrum regarding containment of communism

And how is this germaine to conservatism? I will not be baited into debating the merits of communism, and whether leftists embraced it. Communism and socialism have destroyed millions of human beings. Freedom and conservatism allow people to achieve what they are willing to work for. It even allows failure.

325 posted on 02/06/2006 9:51:56 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever
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To: DoNotDivide
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw.....KILL YOUR ENEMY!

My family has HATED stinking Commies for generations; lost almost the last of them still in Hungary in, '56.

326 posted on 02/06/2006 9:52:31 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

I would say the way that I had a left-wing point of view economically is a lot of reading I did in the late 1990s. I was working for dot-coms at the time. I guess I can be honest more here than among my left-wing pals - I was a big-time stock investor! Peter Lynch, Warren Buffett, fundamental analysis and all of that.

Anyhow in April 2000 the market begins tanking. My stocks had gone up a lot, when they got down to 200% I sold half so I wouldn't lose my original investment. Of course, the half I held onto went to 0, or near it. But I kept my original investment, many friends lost a lot, or even bought on credit and were in worse shape than those who just lost. Following this was unemployment in IT. I was a lucky one who managed to jump from dot coms to Wall Street.

I guess if there's an event that pushed my thinking left economically, it was the stock crash and recession. In my reading, a lot of people moved left during the 1930s Depression so I guess that's what happened to me. And I agree with a lot of what the left wing economists say, which I could go into detail about. But that's why as you asked, I'm a green or left-wing.


327 posted on 02/06/2006 9:52:36 PM PST by ClassConscious
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To: DoNotDivide

I think that you have me confused with someone else. LOL


328 posted on 02/06/2006 9:53:22 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

I like him, he's house broken, and I'm sure we can get rid of the fleas from where he's been playing over in DU. If we only allowed conservative thinkers and bots most of us would get bored real fast.


329 posted on 02/06/2006 9:53:27 PM PST by sonsofliberty2000
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To: defenderSD

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!


330 posted on 02/06/2006 9:53:57 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Zerano
BTW, could anyone please tell me why this link doesn't work? I thought I typed it correctly, & would appreciate your advice. Thank you! :-)

If you use any HTML tags in your post (<p>) the URL won't show up as a link.

331 posted on 02/06/2006 9:54:00 PM PST by jellybean (George Allen 2008)
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To: nopardons

What you are hearing in general, are the echoes of the other wing of the GOP - protectionist, quasi command control of the economy, etc. Coalitions are hard on the nerves to hold together. :)


332 posted on 02/06/2006 9:56:11 PM PST by Torie
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To: ClassConscious

If what you say is true, then you really don't understand that the Communist Left Wing Progressive Liberal Democrats had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the Stock/Tech boom economy of the 90's.

You can thank Conservative tax policy of the 80's for the investment capital and climate that made it possible.


333 posted on 02/06/2006 9:56:47 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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To: ClassConscious

Don't mind those who are out for your head. Heck, I'm suprised I havn't been banned several times since I joined in 2000, and I'm a conservative! Welcome aboard!


334 posted on 02/06/2006 9:56:57 PM PST by sonsofliberty2000
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To: ClassConscious
I am a working class person and hate capitalists.

Take it from somebody who was born in the now Communist country of Cuba:

In the World, there will always be those individuals who are out to scr#w you. That includes capitalist SOB's in a capitalist society.

In a capitalist country, however, you have the option of changing capitalist bosses or even starting your own business and becoming your own capitalist boss (as I am).

In a Communist country, the Government is your boss and your boss will enforce his will by force of arms and by the G-2 dragging you away to the Gulag at 3:00 AM as they dragged away my grandfather.

The only thing worse than an SOB boss is an SOB boss with a gun to your head.

335 posted on 02/06/2006 9:57:11 PM PST by Polybius
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To: nopardons

Nope. Someday, I hope to have an opportunity to tell you how much my family thinks of you.


336 posted on 02/06/2006 9:57:36 PM PST by DoNotDivide (Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.)
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To: Zerano; jellybean
If you use any HTML tags in your post the URL won't show up as a link.

Oh! I forgot about that as well.
337 posted on 02/06/2006 9:57:40 PM PST by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
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To: nopardons

Well, as far as the H1-B issue is concerned I regret you see a need to import IT people when we have American IT people looking for jobs in their field. I do see a need for H1-B's in fields where there aren't enough qualified Americans to be found. That's the reason I qualified my statement about the issuing of the visa's in certain fields.

At age 31 I was apolitical. If I'd been asked I'd have said I was Republican but it wouldn't have come from a strong personal belief but would have been becaused I was raised in a republican household. At the time I was too busy keeping a roof over my and my son's head and food on the table to even give politics a second thought. As time progressed and life became easier financially I was able to look up and pay attention to other things like politics.

You'll have FReepmail shortly but please don't expect much out of me tonight. Have you ever been so tired you're almost too tired to sleep? That's where I am tonight so while I normally enjoy spirited debate, I'm afraid my spirited is MIA for the time being.


338 posted on 02/06/2006 9:59:36 PM PST by Sally'sConcerns (Native Texan now in SW Ok.)
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To: Sally'sConcerns

Betting the farm on American laws insulating you from competition from the best and brightest in your chosen field, is one way to lose the farm. It won't happen, it can't happen, and even if the laws are passed, they won't work. It is time for you to move on to Plan B. Plan A is a loser.


339 posted on 02/06/2006 10:02:28 PM PST by Torie
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To: DoNotDivide

Heck no, hippy! We zot first than convert! < /sarcasm>


340 posted on 02/06/2006 10:03:58 PM PST by sonsofliberty2000
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