In Praise of FR's freedom - from a progressive

by ClassConscious aka SoLongCrooks ^

[ClassConscious]

Link

Earlier thread by this poster under another name before he was banned, linked above also:

Bye-bye Delay! So long crooks! Goodbye world, I'm gone by ZOT!

Posted on 01/08/2006 8:43:32 PM CST by SoLongCrooks

Yaa, you repukes are not doing so well, huh? Imagine, you repukes control the presidency, both houses of Congress, and appointed 7 of the 9 Supreme Court justices. Yet the Supreme Court thre out sodomy laws in all 50 states and recognized the right of government to seize land for any reason. And you couldn't pass your Social Security changes could you? Sorry, that was your last shot. Come November, we're going to start seeing more Democratic faces in the House. It's the end for you guys. You guys are celebrating when Bush's numbers go *up* to 45%. Then Faux News trumpets this like it's some kind of victory.

I should add I am not a Democrat, I am a communist. And I know one day the workers will control the means of production, and all the capitalist idle class parasites you guys love will be eliminated as a class. But I also recognize, like the CPUSA, sometimes you must enter a front with the liberals for tactical reasons. We had fun sticking it to the liberals with Nader and the Greens in 2000, 2002 and 2004, but this year we're switching gears. Evo Morales in Bolivia, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, plus all are other Latin American comrades, and the Left Party in Germany, the Socialist Party in Spain pulling the troops out of Iraq. It's a come back for the workers of the world, BIG TIME. Sorry to all you capitalists and sycophants, or Jesus-believing loonies.

Oh yaa - Bye bye Tom Delay. We control nothing in the government, yet we still control so much! Gramsci was right to make a long march through the institutions. Too bad your shot at power amounted to so little! At least you got your estate tax cut...for a few years anyhow.

*******Beginning of new thread by the same Troll**************

The first thing I will say up front - I am a progressive, not a conservative. This message is about the freedom of Free Republic, versus the party line of Democratic Underground.

If you look at Democratic Underground's rules ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html ), one is "Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates." Note, this doesn't say Republicans, this doesn't say "progressive candidates", it says Democratic candidates, period. Now let's compare this to Free Republic's posting guidelines ( http://www.freerepublic.com/help.htm ) - "Broadly stated, the goals of this site are to further conservatism, expose political corruption, and recover a truly constitutional form of government." No mention of the Republican Party. No jihad against you if you make up your mind to vote for Pertouka. No "party line" from the Republican leadership. Significantly, even though DU and FR are compared often, that is a (unofficial) Democratic Party site, you are a conservative site.

I just made two posts saying positive things about the Green party, talking about how people like Clinton and Kerry do not represent working class people and so forth. This was after 200+ posts there by me on other topics. Both of my threads were locked and I was directed to the above mentioned rules, which say those who don't follow the Democratic Party line are not welcome. I then posted a thread saying Free Republic had more freedom of expression than Democratic Underground, and that that was a shame. That was erased.

While my discussion of this was banned on DU, I don't think it will be banned here. I can't believe I am more free to discuss my support of the Greens, or talk about freedom of political discussion on Free Republic than Democratic Underground. And as I said before, the fact that you are a conservative site, not a official or unofficial Republican Party site is probably due to this. The party that runs the White House, Congress and 7 of 9 Supreme Court seats allows people to support Pertouka over Bush on its main political board. The main discussion board for people of the progressive movement declares all must follow the Democratic Party line, and any other discussion is locked and erased. I've even seen people banned before.

This is not going to make me a conservative or Republican. I am a working class person and hate capitalists. Note, I hate capitalists, not conservatives. I know plenty of conservatives, but am not a regular at the mansions of wealthy heirs. Anyhow, my point is this will not make me like capitalism any more, but I am very fed up with the Democrats and places like DU. They restrict freedom, make people follow a party line - and lose. You allow discussion, allow people to choose between Pertouka, Bush and whatnot - and win. Very sad.

I should close this by saying I agree with nothing the Republicans or conservatives are for - except one thing. I am a complete supporter of the Second Amendment. I have been on the left for a long time and the scariest people around are the gun control people. Not the soccer moms who the leaders of gun control people try to appeal to, but the leaders themselves, the people who want more and more gun control. I have heard people like this talk about how they are scared that people up in Appalachia and in the South have so many guns. I am always puzzled like this. For myself, I feel pretty SAFE knowing people in Appalachia, the South and so forth have guns. Why would someone be scared that the working people in rural areas have rifles, shotguns and so forth? The people who say this usually aren't working class people, they are usually liberal yuppie types. So all you second amendment supporters - you're more right than you know, if you heard how these people talk, you'd be more freaked out by all this gun control stuff than you probably already are. The gun control people are the creepiest, scariest people on the left and in the Democratic party. Meaning not the soccer moms and so forth they try to appeal to, but the people masterminding the fight on that. In fact, if you look at DU polls - many many DUers are more pro-2nd amendment than pro-gun control. So who are these gun control people? So keep fighting on this, at least one party supports the 2nd Amendment. Other than this, I don't agree with conservatives or Republicans on anything, especially in terms of the working class. Hopefully this post will shame some DU admin into allowing more freedom of expression for progressives there. You guys can discuss problems in the conservative movement while we can't - we're only allowed to praise the Democratic party, otherwise, hit the road. I hope I shame some DU admin into making changes with this, but I doubt I will.

[armymarinemom]

We have several people around here who are reformed liberals. Civil open discussion isn't a bad thing at all.

[Sally'sConcerns]

AM,

Would it be possible to give this new poster a chance. He's stated he's pro 2nd amendment and I think I'm also seeing an openness to FR because we are so unlike DU. I think he just might be convertable.

Besides, y'all can always nuke him if he gets out of line.

[Herford Turley]

I bet you even whip your spouse!!!!!

:-)

[purpleland]

I would like to say that anyone with an idle dollar in their pocket is a capitalist - even a welfare recipient. You might better direct your hate specifically at capitalist mogols and monopolies. Capitalism is not a form of government - it is a natural economic dynamic and has always been in practice (trade & profit) since early man emerged from the stone age. The problem is: should government be the sole proprietor of capital? Or should the private citizen? It is easier to fight a private entity than to fight a totalitarian government for economic justice. Failing Euro-socialism is a good example of economic fallacies in practice, e.g., France. Most lower working and middle class people do not hate capitalism or despise free enterprise.

If it were not for America's pro-capitalism, we would not have the productive middle class majority which is the great HEART BEAT of America.

[Mogengator]

I was tombstoned (banned) from DU in late December '04 for expressing some skepticism that John Kerry would be inaugurated on 1/20/05.

[B Knotts]

The term "capitalist" was invented to try to pretend that the free market, which is basically organic, was somehow part of, and created by, an ideology ("capitalism"), which is simply not true.

If you're interested, read Bionomics, by Michael Rothschild sometime.

[TAdams8591]

"Why should this be zotted? It's classic."

Agreed.

[mthom]

progressive=socialist/communist. Very few people or organizations that label themselves progressive are not socialists/communists. Non commies who call themselves progressives are mislabeling their views.

[A.A. Cunningham]

GMT

[The Bat Lady]

good luck in the honest search for the truth. Yes, we believe in freedom of speech. If it is working well, then you are guaranteed to be offended at some point.

Constitutionally, if everyone can say what is on their mind, someone will be offended.

Now, I'm a capitalist because I think it is a more fair system to everyone than socialism, but then that is just me... and a few hundreds of thousands of my FR like-minded FRiends.

However, we don't flame someone who can honestly look at DU as a site to control speech (kinda like the Democrat party) and want to look at FR as a good research for ideas. They might not be your ideas but watch out, you might be converted :)

[AFreeBird]

Welcome aboard. We do tend to lean to the conservative side of things; not a bad direction IMHO, but civil discourse is welcome.

The DU is plain and simply - a sewer.

And hey, you do understand about that inalienable human right of self defense, so you can't be all that bad.

And while I hate to see a nice natural stand of trees or forest raped to the ground to put up condos or strip malls, the greens tend to get a little too militant about it. You could guys could stand to learn to work with business by showing them a better (and cost effective) way of building within the environement, because building / /growth IS gonna happen, so work with us and not against us.

We ain't going back to the caves.

[nopardons]

Pat Buchanan is NOT an icon here and he's not a Conservative either.

You do seem VERY confused, dear.

[an amused spectator]

And why do you hate capitalists, commie?

I'd be willing to bet that CC hates "Capitalists" with a big "C", and not "capitalists" with a little "c".

You know, Big Oil, Big Pharmaceutical, etc. Not Joe Smith, the local guy who owns 5 grocery stores or gas stations, or has his own local business.

[BreitbartSentMe]

Good points that you made, but you forgot the one cardinal rule:

The first one to calls another a 'nazi' loses!!!

Oh, and I think that the way the FR software displays the threads is far superior (Thanks John!) - I can't easily navigate any of their threads to see the latest posts with they way they nest them over at DU. {See, I was going to call it the DUmp, like I normally do, but I decided to be polite - 8) today at least } So, in the interest of continuing to be polite - here's another tip. Notice that I added both you and John Robinson to the 'Reply to' portion. It's only polite to 'ping' others when you mention them or one of their posts. When you include them in the 'reply to' box, they will get a notification that there are "New posts yo you" the next time they sign in.

[Bender2]

Re: progressive=socialist/communist. Very few people or organizations that label themselves progressive are not socialists/communists. Non commies who call themselves progressives are mislabeling their views.

HUNNNNNNNNNNN???????

[RandallFlagg]

I echo Sally'sConcerns.

Rush has often said that a lot of liberals become conservative, and the opposite hardly ever happens.

I second keeping this one. He/she can be shown the light and possibly better him/herself because of it. If we can help with this trip, all the better.

Please keep this one.

[jellybean]

Real conservative there.

Harrowup has never claimed to be a conservative. He's an honest liberal.

[zeugma]

There may be some small bit of hope for you now that you've seen how incredibly close-minded your leftist brethren are. Look elsewhere, and you'll see the same thing replicated not only on DU, but almost any other place that leftists congregate. It is the sign of a small mind and small ideas contained in them that they can't handle dissent of even the smallest degree. You see, if dissent were allowed, it might force them to occasionally think about the real implications of their philosophy.

I'm right there with you on the evil represented by the gun grabbers. They are truely scary folks. Many of them are guilty of a projection of their own fears on other people. I can't tell you how many times I've seen them say something to the effect of "if I had a gun, there are several people I'd want to kill". Because they lack the self control that is necessary to have ready access to deadly force and yet not utilize it except when it is necessesary and proper, they feel that everyone is similarly deranged. I know that when I carry, I am much more polite to folks, and do what I can do avoid unpleasantness that can be avoided gracefully. Apparently, there are many who are incapable of same and believe that I must not be able to either.

Regarding your "class consciousness", I'd recommend you read quite a bit more history and get a better feel for how the very concept of "class" has been used throughout the ages to subjugate people. Here in America, most of us have trancended such petty issues as class and race and find life to be much more enjoyable if we judge a man's actions rather than his apparent social status.

If you decide to continue affiliation with this board, I can pretty much guarantee you'll get into some rather heated discussions. Try not to take it too personally. As long as you don't accuse everyone of being some kind of nazi sympathizer, and are willing to debate honestly, most folks here will cut you a little slack.

[harrowup]

Some (ick) "progressives" have a small particle of brain lodged in their skulls, and are capable of learning. We owe it to them, and ourselves, to explore the potential here.

Most, if not all, true progressives utterly despise the liars and thieves who have swarmed the political landscape.

There are even a few liberal Democrats left who don't like crooks either.

I'm guessing he doesn't really 'hate' capitalist'; he doesn't like the way some capitalists perform...a few more every day are going to jail...and as soon as we start sending a few of the 'progressive' and/or 'liberal' hollywood types into the hoosegough we'll be better off.

[M Kehoe]

Good evening.

(Whereas MurryMom is just an idiot, not a psychopath, so we keep her around for target practice).

;^)

5.56mm