Is “Old Europe” Doomed?

Cato Institute ^ | February 6, 2006 | Theodore Dalrymple

[GOPJ]

Thanks for the ping.

[G.Mason]

Interestingly enough, Aristotle died in 322 BC, and Plato in 347 BC.

Greece was conquered in 146 BC.

All things being relative ... We ( the United States) should have another year or two remaining.

[Valin]

February 6, 2006
A European Awakening Against Islamic Fascism?
By Victor Davis Hanson
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_6_06_VDH.html

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

The birth rate is declining and is negative in some Western European nations.

What, are they stuffing children back into their mothers' wombs?

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

What, are they stuffing children back into their mothers' wombs?

Still trying to figure out if you're joking here, or if you really don't know what the term "birth rate" means!

[wtc911]

It is not doomed, it is dead already. The new europe is deciding what it will be, either a neo-fascist isolationist stronghold or an islamo-fascist colony.

[jjm2111]

From your link:"Europeans pointedly warned the Iranians that further enrichment was unacceptable and that the use of force to prevent acquisition of an Iranian bomb could not be ruled out. "

I have one question: How? The Europeans do not have the capability to use force against Iran short of nuking them.

[KC_Conspirator]

I do agree with one thing the author says; this radical, headstrong, insistence on imposing harsh socialism is killing any economic growth in old europe. This in turn is going to lead to alot of different social and economic problems.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

Well I thought I knew what "birth rate" means, until someone suggested that there might be such a thing as a negative birth rate.

I would have thought that the number of births is always a positive integer, and that "birth rate" would entail dividing that positive integer by time and/or by the number of women who are of childbearing age, all also postive numbers.

Consequently (although I admit it's a picky point, and I really meant my post humorously) I would think that a "negative birth rate" was an oxymoron. Unless "birth rate" means something I was not considering.

[Billthedrill]

Another brilliant Dalrymple exposition, and thanks for posting it. Too many good lines to comment on all of them, but this one seems to put the blame for the current ennui squarely on multiculturalism, where in my opinion it belongs:

This loss of cultural confidence is particularly important at a time of mass immigration from very alien cultures, an immigration that can be successfully negotiated...only if the host nations believe themselves to be the bearers of cultures into which immigrants wish, or ought to wish, to integrate, assimilate, and make their own.

The alternative, as Dalrymple points out, is a predatory, migratory culture that regards the current inhabitants of their intended settlement as culturally inferior and there only as an accident of geography. (American Indians may recall that approach with some bitterness.) Illiteracy and religious fanaticism feed this insularity. The result is a generation of young Islamic men who will, as conquering barbarians always do, take what they want because no one can make them stop.

Europe's demographic difficulties are perfectly addressable with lower population density and high technology were it not for the immigration difficulties that make the transition to an older, smaller population imbalanced and unstable. One might have said the same thing about the Western Roman empire. The issue clearly is what the nature of the population influx will be and whether it will be controlled. And the uncomfortable truth is that due to the stifling regulatory environment, a young Polish entrepreneur hoping to build wealth is not as welcome as a young Algerian with no job skills and whose only hope of wealth must come from the dole. The two have entirely different expectations and abilities (and willingness) to assimilate.

Europe is not doomed. It will change. The question is whether it will be able to control that change or cede that control to others. And some of those others don't have a theme park for seniors in mind.

[jordan8]

This loss of cultural confidence is particularly important at a time of mass immigration from very alien cultures, an immigration that can be successfully negotiated (as it has been in the past, or in the United States up to the era of multiculturalism) only if the host nations believe themselves to be the bearers of cultures into which immigrants wish, or ought to wish, to integrate, assimilate, and make their own.

Not a bad article except for this bit. Immigration cannot be successfully negotiated, not at the level where the natives will soon become a minority. This is simply a PC lie told out of fear. Something also has to be said about the line "in the United States up to the era a multiculturalism." The era of multiculturalism began with the '65 immigration act. The FACT of multi-racialism begat multiculturalism and was virtually inevitable. He puts the horse before the cart, here. The assimilation of the pre '65 European immigration is also exaggerated, this immigration had profound political and social consequences, a fact acknowledged by Congress with the tightening of immigration laws in the 20s.

[ClaireSolt]

"The assimilation of the pre '65 European immigration is also exaggerated, this immigration had profound political and social consequences, a fact acknowledged by Congress with the tightening of immigration laws in the 20s." You are right about that. When people say we had all those immigrants without any problems, I point out that we are still trying to get the maffia under control. However, I do not think we have ever had laws requiring English speaking. Immigrants find their own way, but apparently it is easier here than in Europe.

[Valin]

I have one question: How?

I'm thinking a strongly worded note..in BOLD letters. That'll show em.

[white trash redneck]

Europe remains little more than an anti-semitic theme park with quaint architecture.