Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

de Borchgrave - Later than we think (on Iran president Ahmadinejad)
United Press International (excerpt) ^ | February 2, 2005 | ARNAUD DE BORCHGRAVE

Posted on 02/02/2006 4:12:52 PM PST by HAL9000

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-55 next last
To: Dajjal

Very informative post -- thanks.


21 posted on 02/02/2006 8:18:34 PM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: odds

Bravo!
Big Bump!


22 posted on 02/02/2006 8:19:14 PM PST by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: MLedeen

pong


23 posted on 02/02/2006 8:29:10 PM PST by nuconvert ([there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: HAL9000

Foward-thinking people had better find a way to remove this one from the scene.


24 posted on 02/02/2006 8:30:54 PM PST by Prince Charles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HAL9000

New York City is slated for destruction by the Mullah's forthcoming nukes.

And then millions of Iranians will needlessly die in a nuclear counterstrike.

Do you shoot a lunatic driving a schoolbus over a cliff, even though some children may get hurt when you shoot? We have to go in, soon.


25 posted on 02/02/2006 8:30:55 PM PST by tomahawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Prince Charles

Major cleanup in aisle 2.

Hope help is on the way.


26 posted on 02/02/2006 8:31:43 PM PST by tomahawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: HAL9000
His two-sentence explanation was adequate for this article.

You may be right, and I might be a bit too harsh on him.

But this essay is not the first place I've seen this "Twelvers-want-to-begin-chaos-so-that-the-Mahdi-will-come" argument with regards to Ahmadinejad. Previously these past few weeks I've been concentrating on telling people that Ahmadinejad is not alone in expecting the Mahdi -- that many Sunni and Shi'ite imams have been preaching this for decades. Today I decided to focus on that particular reasoning, and Mr. de Borchgrave gets the brunt of my frustration.

I'm glad that finally, after over four years, the people in Washington are starting to understand that Muslim End Time beliefs are having an impact on the War on Terror. But they really need to get up to speed.

27 posted on 02/02/2006 8:32:31 PM PST by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: odds
IMO, the U.S. needs to support regime change in Iran and not only or necessarily thru a military strike.... Regime change in Iran to a secular, democracy is critical.

I agree. It would be nice if this could be resolved without massive bloodshed.

Or perhaps if a surgical strike could take out Iran's nuclear capability. But some say their program is too spread out and too entrenched. At any rate, regime change would still be necessary.

28 posted on 02/02/2006 8:45:22 PM PST by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

thanks for the ping!

I dont see how the doctrine of MAD would work w/ this madman...you cant threaten them w/ what they perceive as martyrdome and eternal reward for fighting against us.

Anyone read Exekiel Option by Joel Rosenberg, (I think) (been awhile since I read it). Amazing how truth can look alot like fiction!


29 posted on 02/02/2006 9:57:47 PM PST by kcmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: kcmom

It sounds like an Nostradamus Prophecie

http://ww-iii.tripod.com/

Prophecies of Nostradamus on World War III

To summarize what I have analyzed in this site, based on various prophecies, the Third World War would start when Russia suddenly attacks Europe in coalition with certain Middle Eastern countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Libya and probably China. Prior to the World War III, USA would be severely crippled by terrorist attacks, assassinations, a civil war and an economic collapse. Prior to that, there would be a civil war in Italy, during which the Vatican would be overrun by the mob. The Pope would escape but many of his cardinals would die. The palace and the chapels would be burnt down. While on the run, the Pope would be captured and killed. There would be a schism in the Vatican and three Popes would reign at the same time, propped up by competing powers. Supported by US and other catholic countries, the Papacy would be shifted elsewhere and a "true" Pope would be elected there. Europe would be almost overrun by the Russian and eastern forces and many of its cities and also those of USA would be destroyed by conventional weapons as well as weapons of mass destruction like nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. Russia would attack from the North as well as from the East of Europe. An Arab / Iranian army would attack from the south. The Pope, and later the British Prime Minister would be forced to flee to the US. Paris would be destroyed by "revolutionaries" within France. The attack on the US would stop the Civil War there.  New types of weapons, like Chemical Weapons and particularly what appears to be portable Laser weapons, would be used in the war. At the same time an unprecedented disaster would take place. A comet would suddenly appear over the earth in the peak of the war, would break into several pieces and fall to the earth. Smaller pieces would rain fire on cities and forests all over the world, burning them down. A large piece would fall into the sea creating a Tsunami of Biblical proportions, flooding parts of Europe (including Britain), USA and Africa. One medium sized chunk would fall on land, creating a huge crater, resulting in earthquake and volcano activities all over the world. This event would loosen the grip of the invading army over Europe. A joint coalition of US and European forces under the leadership of a charismatic leader "Chiren" would organize a counter-attack against the invading forces in Europe and elsewhere. The Russian forces in Europe would be almost destroyed by the counter-attack and this would lead to a revolution in Russia and the Russian leader who started the war would be assassinated. Russia, under a new leader would then join the western coalition and fight against its former allies, who would eventually be defeated. The Pope would return to Europe and Chiren would be crowned the Monarch. Peace would return to the world after a loss of almost two-thirds of its population and the wealth of nations accumulated over millennia. But this would surely not be the end of the world.


30 posted on 02/02/2006 10:08:24 PM PST by april15Bendovr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: april15Bendovr

also reads right out of the Bible.ou can look at Ezekiel 38 and 39 and the book of Revelation to see what the world is in for. We know not the day or the hour, but Jesus did give us some signs of the times (Mt 24) and most of them are present in these days. It might not be "the end" but it sure looks like the beginning of it.

I dont think most Americans have the fortitude to go through some of the things so many people are saying might happen if events play out to our disadvantage. What happened in New Orleans after Katrina is but a foreshadowing of a nation brought to its knees economically.
This is why ELECTIONS matter!!


31 posted on 02/02/2006 10:23:48 PM PST by kcmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: kcmom

You mean Ted Kennedy wont save us?


32 posted on 02/02/2006 10:35:06 PM PST by april15Bendovr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

The way I understood it is that Ahmadinejad is, as you said, aware that the conditions are ripe for the mahdi's return, however, he also believes he could "speed things up a bit" by igniting a conflict like the one we're headed for. I get the impression he believes he has a level of influence on when this will happen, given his two-year window...


33 posted on 02/03/2006 6:10:58 AM PST by Rutles4Ever (To be a rock, and not to roll)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

The political set in Washington needs to stop thinking about being politicians and start thinking about being guardians of our national well-being, on both sides of the aisle. Political fallout is much better than nuclear fallout, in my opinion, and I hope the White House goes "balls to the wall" on Iran before it's too late. I've been trying to gauge from my co-workers and such their understanding of the situation, and with a few exceptions, no one has a clue as to the gravity of this scenario.


34 posted on 02/03/2006 6:24:03 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
There is no reason why a millennialist like Iran’s Ahmadinejad should be deterred by the philosophy of MADD that worked surprisingly well with the Soviet Union. The Soviets, for all their faults, lived in the same Reality that we do. Ahmadinejad and the jihadists do not.

Too bad our leaders don't realize this.
Religion of Peace, indeed.

35 posted on 02/03/2006 6:28:35 AM PST by XR7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal

Thank you for the information in this post and your #13. This is not the first time I have heard that "victory" (in the western sense, i.e., "you surrendered, we won") in the jihadi's mind is not important.

The important thing is to do the do the work of allah against the infidels and be rewarded, with either your ticket stamped for the 7th heaven or being the instrument allah uses to usher in the universal dar al islam.

The twist in the context of muslim eschatology puts things in a much clearer perspective and I thank you your illumination.

The sad part of it is, my limited imagination can only see this conflict ending with a bloodbath in the hundreds of millions - either "ours" (non muslim) or theirs. I'm not sure of any other way it will end.


36 posted on 02/03/2006 9:33:50 AM PST by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Dark Skies; Dajjal; arthurus
Thanks for the ping.

Dajjal brings up some good facts to understand the motivations of Ahmadinejad. Dajjal, you need to keep posting and sharing your thoughts so others can understand the rationale of this individual and the Shia like him. The fact the author above could even consider the old MAD doctrine in dealing with those who share his ideology make me wonder if its worth it to gnaw through the leather straps some mornings...

I've found talking to "muslims" ("true believers," so called scholars, and those "in name only") about their personal end of times beliefs is infuriating as they each have a different take on things depending on where they have studied, which school of thought they are most influenced by, and am amazed how they readily accept what they are told (the scholars are all wise, dontchyaknow) without question and fatalistically go on with their lives in ignorance, but with a smile. The "tiada apa" attitude that overrides many of their brains.

It's what muslims often don't think of which bothers me... their children and their futures with nuts like Ahmadinejad around and where shows of arrogance and "standing up to the west" in unity with the ummah in the pursuit of regaining the mythical lost glories of islamic empire, will get them.

DS, you know me... I step back and look at the big picture and try to consider long term results of our often myopic short term actions. Smaller differences in the plan many not matter when the end result and issues may be the same.

Time is running out, and arthurus (post #9) hits upon a concern of mine: Even a successful raising of the people against the government is apt to cause a nuclear launch in a last gasp attempt to bring on Mr. 12 to rescue the situation.

IMHO, Ahmadinejad is out there running around in broad daylight and his location often known. He's been lucky so far. I hope it wont last.

But Iran, of course, will not be the last time an islamic nation threatens us all, and I've been spending more time in a discussion considering the consequences and options a few steps further down the road.

37 posted on 02/03/2006 10:02:39 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Dark Skies
Funny you should say that...he is expected to emerge from a well in Jamkaran, a small locality near the holy city of Qom, the “cradle” of militant Shi’ism.

Are these religious beliefs or the first draft of a screenplay for a Wes Craven movie?

38 posted on 02/03/2006 10:08:25 AM PST by Stentor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: HAL9000

Is that like the Seattle Twelfth Man?


39 posted on 02/03/2006 10:10:42 AM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cornpone

Hitler didn't drink. And Ahmedinejihadi was involved in this little thing called the Embassy Hall Putsch many years ago, for which he was never imprisoned, nor did he write a book, afaik. I don't even know if he can read, actually.


40 posted on 02/03/2006 10:12:49 AM PST by Flavius Josephus (Enemy Idealogies: Pacifism, Liberalism, and Feminism, Islamic Supremacism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-55 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson