Danger Zone - (Haleigh Poutre)

National Review ^ | February 01, 2006 | Wesley J, Smith

[Ohioan from Florida]

In the court (and courts) of life and death, a little 11-year-old Massachusetts girl named Haleigh Poutre could be the next Terri Schiavo. For those who have not heard the tragic story, Haleigh was beaten nearly to death last September, allegedly by her adoptive mother and stepfather. The beating left her unconscious and barely clinging to life.

Within a week or so of the beating, her doctors had written her off. They apparently told Haleigh's court-appointed guardian, Harry Spence, that she was "virtually brain dead." Even though he had never visited her, Spence quickly went to court seeking permission to remove her respirator and feeding tube. The court agreed, a decision affirmed recently by the supreme court of Massachusetts.

And so, no doubt with the best of intentions, a little girl who had already suffered so much was stripped by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts of even the chance to fight to stay alive. If she didn't stop breathing when the respirator was removed, which doctors expected, she would slowly dehydrate to death.

Close Call

Then came the unexpected:

[amdgmary]

Ping to post #300 for the transcript of the Schiavo interview shown last night on MSNBC.

[T'wit]

This is not exact science. Terri was neither "clinically dead" nor "just...disabled." The term "severely brain damaged" would fit as well as any.

[T'wit]

Hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy sounds like what would happen if you applied a choke hold to the carotid arteries of a healthy 26-year-old woman. She would then "collapse" from "cardiac arrest" from "potassium deficiency" from "dietary imbalance" caused by excessive "bulimia," right?

[Ohioan from Florida]

You don't know what you're talking about. Have you ever watched someone die?

That's priceless, Hildy! I don't know what I'm talking about?! Are you coming unglued or something?

Before I answer your question, I would like to inform you that I've seen you ask posters on other threads really bizarre personal questions, like whether they are single or married, if they have ever had any experience with something or another. You insinuate that the other poster is daft, because their experience is different from your own. Here's news for you, Hildy. Everyone has different life experiences that shape who they are as a person and the choices they make. We are each different, and to think that one form of experience is *better* than another is untrue. The experiences are simply different.

So here's the answer to your very inappropriate personal question of me: YES! YES! Yes, I have watched people die! More than once. They are very private personal matters to me, as I'm sure they are to anybody who witnesses the death process.

Hey, just to float your boat, I've also witnessed animals in the throes of the death process, too. Whether it is a person dying or an animal dying, it is a heart-wrenching experience, where I wanted to do everything I could to comfort the person/animal I was with. Giving comfort to the dying is something any compassionate person would do.

So inquiring minds want to know, Hildy. WTH do my life experiences have to do with this? I don't know if all cases of people dying are the same, I would expect not. The people that I watched die, that I was with, and cared for, for days as they died, YES, those people thirsted for water, ached for pain relief, begged for comfort, and yearned for love. And they got it, whenever they wanted it, from me or those who were with me attending to their needs.

Are you satisfied with what I know, Hildy? Try telling me again that I don't know what I'm talking about! I would love to have a simple apology from you on this point alone, Hildy. I promise not to taunt you with it if you ever can say you were wrong this time. And since you questioned me publicly, a private apology will not do.

[Ohioan from Florida]

I understand that there is plenty of discussion as to whether Terri was truly PVS or not, and the possiblity exists that there will be discussions around this same concept for Haleigh, too. However, I think it's about time that everyone realizes that Terri was not brain-dead, nor was she ever brain-dead, because if she had been they would not have been able to resuscitate her in 1990 no matter how hard they tried. Some people seem to continually want to put out utter untruths about Terri as being clinically dead. She was not clinically dead until March 31, 2005.

From your link, T'wit:

Harvard Ad Hoc Committee on Brain Death In 1968, this committee of the Harvard Medical School published a report describing the following characteristics of a permanently nonfunctioning brain, a condition it referred to as "irreversible coma," now known as brain death:

1. Unreceptivity and unresponsitivity

2. --patient shows total unawareness to external stimuli and unresponsiveness to painful stimuli; No movements or breathing

3. --all spontaneous muscular movement, spontaneous respiration and response to stimuli are absent; No reflexes

--fixed, dilated pupils; lack of eye movement even when hit or turned, or ice water is placed in the ear; lack of response to noxious stimuli; unelicitable tendon reflexes.

In addition to these criteria, a flat electroencephalogram (EEG) was recommended. The committee also noted that drug intoxication and hypothermia which can both cause reversible loss of brain functions should be excluded as causes. The report was used in determining patient care issues and organ transplants. The condition of irreversible coma, i.e., brain death, needs to be distinguished from the persistent vegetative state, in which clinical presentations are similar but in which patients manifest cycles of sleep and wakefulness. [See President’s Commission for the Study of Ethical Problems in Medicine and Biomedical and Behavioral Research, Defining Death (Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1981)].

[TAdams8591]

Everyone used Terri BUT Michael. /sarcasm

[TAdams8591]

"Yeah, about 10 of us, we all went to Vegas."

An all expense paid trip from Michael (who now because of Terri, is a wealthy man) for ten, LOL! And most people take 8 other people with them on their honeymoon. How romantic.

NO, Michael didn't use Terri.

[TAdams8591]

If Terri were brain dead, she would have required a heart and lung machine. She would not have been able to breathe on her own.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[floriduh voter]

Pinellas County had torrential rains this morning. Roof collapse of a bed, bath and beyond in St. Pete. New meaning to the word "beyond" as people and merchandise gushed out the front door from water from the roof. Good thing the store wasn't full this morning. The rain set a record. Traffic a mess, schoolbuses are taking longer.

bttt for Haleigh.

[floriduh voter]

Terri was alert and aware. That's why judge greer let Michael Schiavo hide her for years. They didn't want the world to know that Terri was breathing on her own and could follow instructions. She laughed, she cried but because of her lack of inalienable rights, she was murdered by the starvation state of Florida.

[syriacus]

I think there are a lot of similarities.

I know Terri did not have cerebral palsy but the way she behaved (especially the tilt of her head and the way she held her mouth and the manner in which she attempted to talk) reminded me of a person with very severe CP.

[Pepper777]

**Why is Social Services threatening the biological mother if she speaks publicly about Haleigh? Because Haleigh is improving at a good pace? Disgusting...**

Yes, indeed, SpottedOwl. It's very disgusting. Seems they playing by the same rule book that Schiavo used when he kept Terri as a prisoner. IIRC, Greer also sealed information of abuse from Florida's DSS. The following is also very disgusting:

"DSS, who has custody of Haleigh, two weeks ago received permission from the Supreme Judical Court to remove her from life support. Haleigh was in a vegetative state at Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, but last Thursday was moved to Franciscan Hospital for Children in Brighton because of increasing responsiveness. DSS will say only that Haleigh is “medically stable” at Franciscan."

“They impounded her medical records, raising incredible questions about what DSS knew and when they knew it,” Murphy said. “They put a clamp on my client.”

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=124115

From the first article's quoted paragraph above - notice they are still using the very disgusting termonology of *vegetative state*, even though the DSS admits Haleigh was able to understand commands to pick up a toy. Unbelievable. I'm glad Wendy Murphy is representing the birth mom. She seems to be a great advocate for the abused. Haleigh definately needs someone on her side.

Unfortunately Wendy is up against a very well funded and organized bunch of ghouls. I hope and pray she has the strenght to fight the evil from the pit, who will most likely come out against her and Haleigh.

[8mmMauser]

Hi again, Hildy.

I wasn't going to bother you until you got excited again and posted this to me.

You know, I don't get angry at you now. Yes, what you say is very frustrating to those of us who are recipients of your excitement, but you are different from the disruptors. I do not see you as coming in here to wreak havoc as those from the death cults do, but more as to honestly seek answers to something eating on you.

In all charity, we offer up our prayers that your soul be touched and you be inspired to G-d and come to grips with whatever is compelling you to visit these threads that excite you so much.

You keep shouting in capital letters about the CLINICALLY DEAD. You infer at length that Terri was CLINICALLY DEAD. Well, guess what! Our son was much worse than Terri for 26 years and much more CLINICALLY DEAD than Terri. We would have only wished he could have been as well off as she.

Our CLINICALLY DEAD son lived long and brought joy and happiness to us and enjoyed life as well. At the end, we watched him die, of a severe illness that nearly killed us, his parents, too. We don't regret for a moment his precious time with us.

Our son never wanted to die. Terri tried to shout her desire to live. Don't tell me that is all false, because I was right on the scene outside the police barrier when she cried out. Lots of us witnessed the uncontrolled excitement that was later deleted from the news. We knew. We all knew.

You cannot disabuse us of this, our lying eyes and ears. You can only close your own mind and deny.

Once, again, Hildy, I am just saddened that you cannot yet open your eyes and heart to these truths. If you did, you would reap wonderful things. We keep our faith and hope.

Pax

[T'wit]

The autopsy confirmed earlier neurological observations (I don't recall which doc[s]) that the damage to Terri's brain was largely in the cerebral cortex, the front, the area fed by the carotids. The rear part of the brain, which has a different source of oxygenated blood, was surprisingly intact with some networks undamaged. These may account for her observed capacities.

The autopsy also confimed that she had not suffered a general anoxic insult. No heart attack. No anoxic organ damage below her neck. Liver, heart, etc. all in good shape. All this was known too while she was alive, and it rules a bulimic episode -- never a serious possibility.

One gets a picture. Blood to her brain through the carotid arteries was cut off somehow, resulting in her brain damage. There is only one suspect. He was never investigated.

Where the hell is Columbo?

[8mmMauser]

Your tag line. Oh, now I cy. Cool.

[Pepper777]

**Glad to say my partner and I trust each other on this. We've discussed this and both know we would not dehydrate each other to death.**

Unbelievable that people are now having to worry about being dehydrated to death. The good news is, those who know the truth, have not fallen for the EUphoric lies of Felos/Schiavo, Dr Cranford and the Bio Ghouls. You were so right in an earlier post, when you said people shouldn't follow the likes of Felos and Schiavo. After watching Schiavo on the very biased Oberman show, I'm thinking the cult of death ghouls may come to regret their choice of making Michael Schiavo their hero. He literally looks like a vampire with those deep, dark circles under his eyes. At one time, I actually thought some of the photos of Schiavo were altered to make his appearance look worse. I was sure wrong on that one. Even with TV makeup, those dark circles came through loud and clear. Perhaps the control freak is having problems sleeping.

[Pepper777]

**SCHIAVO: Yes, it will be. You know something? Terri was a beautiful woman. And she‘ll always be with me. [Michael sheds his fake crocodile tears at this point] **

Schiavo has no right to even talk about Terri. How dare he say she will always be with him. What he did to Terri and her family was totally evil. I wouldn't be surprised if he is having nightmares about what he did to her. That's the only way she would be anywhere near him - in his nightmares, as he recalls the horror he put her through.

You're so right about Olbermann. He feel all over himself, while using Schiavo as a tool to bash Republicans.

[Sun]

"Haleigh Poutre’s biological mother had a “very emotional” visit with her brain-damaged daughter this week, but is barred from telling anyone whether the girl moved, smiled or just lay still, her attorney said yesterday."

This reminds me of when Terri's family could not go public, if they wanted to see her.

If Terri's parents showed videos that they had of Terri, they would not have been allowed to visit her as evidenced in letter from following link.

http://www.cnsnews.com/pdf/2003/bushnell.pdf


What happened to freedom of speech?

[floriduh voter]

How to Recognize a Stroke

This might be a lifesaver if you can remember the following advice, sent by a nurse, whose husband is a medical doctor.

Sometimes symptoms of a stroke are difficult to identify. A stroke victim may suffer permanent brain damage when people fail to recognize what's happening. Now, doctors say any bystander can recognize a stroke, simply by asking three questions:

1. ask the individual to smile.

2. ask him or her to raise both arms.

3. ask the person to speak a simple sentence.

If he or she has trouble with any of these tasks, call 911 immediately, and describe the symptoms to the dispatcher. Researchers are urging the general public to learn to ask these three questions quickly, to someone they suspect of having a stroke. Widespread use of this test could result in prompt diagnosis and treatment of a stroke, and prevent permanent brain damage.

FYI: Many complaints went out to various organizations and politicians regarding Ted Stith's trafficking from hospital to hospice.

Something's wrong when rehabilitation is no longer offered to a man 73 years young who begged for water but was dehydrated to death instead.

I hope someone took the complaints seriously. It's justice v. euthanasia, the baby boomers vs. the "unethical" bioethicists. I like it. unethical bioethicists. It so describes the death professors that lurk in the halls of Florida's colleges and universities. They are teaching med students how to kill.