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Discovery's Creation [The rise & fall of the Discovery Institute]
Seattle Weekly ^ | 01 February 2006 | Roger Downey

Posted on 02/01/2006 6:32:25 AM PST by PatrickHenry

A Seattle think tank launched the modern intelligent-design movement with a simple memo. The idea has evolved into a media sensation. And the cause has mutated beyond rational control.

In 1998, members of a Seattle nonprofit think tank drafted a secret five-year plan with an ambitious goal: to "defeat scientific materialism" and "replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God."

By the end of the stated five-year period, the benevolent conspirators had seen much of their goal accomplished. There was widespread public debate with materialist Darwinists. Dozens of books had been published presenting a non-Darwinian alternative theory of life. There was widespread respectful press coverage of their cause, with innumerable supportive op-ed columns in mainstream media, cover stories in the national newsweeklies, and even a widely broadcast PBS documentary. School authorities in 10 states were looking into adopting some or all of the recommendations for high-school science curricula. So well was the campaign going that in 2004, some of the original antimaterialism advocates were confident enough of eventual triumph to predict in detail a complete meltdown of Darwinian science by 2025—the 100th anniversary of the notorious "Monkey Trial" of 1925.

However unlikely their optimism at the time, it looks a great deal more unlikely today. In December, a federal judge presiding over another case of Darwin versus faith in a public-school system handed the antimaterialists a defeat so sweeping—in the form of a judicial decision so detailed and so trenchant—that even the most passionate advocates of faith-based science seem stunned and confused about the future of their cause. They'll be back. But in this time of their momentary disarray, it seems appropriate to look back over the short but rocketlike rise to media celebrity of the idea called "intelligent design" and the small, dedicated band of true believers who sold the concept to the wider world.

The story begins, so far as the world at large is concerned, on a late January day seven years ago, in a mail room in a downtown Seattle office of an international human-resources firm. The mail room was also the copy center, and a part-time employee named Matt Duss was handed a document to copy. It was not at all the kind of desperately dull personnel-processing document Duss was used to feeding through the machine. For one thing, it bore the rubber-stamped warnings "TOP SECRET" and "NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION." Its cover bore an ominous pyramidal diagram superimposed on a fuzzy reproduction of Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel rendition of God the Father zapping life into Adam, all under a mysterious title: The Wedge.

Curious, Duss rifled through the 10 or so pages, eyebrows rising ever higher, then proceeded to execute his commission while reserving a copy of the treatise for himself. Within a week, he had shared his find with a friend who shared his interest in questions of evolution, ideology, and the propagation of ideas. Unlike Duss, the friend, Tim Rhodes, was technically savvy, and it took him little time to scan the document and post it to the World Wide Web, where it first appeared on Feb. 5, 1999.

The unnamed author of the document wasted no time getting down to his subject. "The proposition that human beings are created in the image of God is one of the bedrock principles on which Western civilization was built. Yet little over a century ago, this cardinal idea came under wholesale attack by intellectuals drawing on the discoveries of modern science." Such thinkers as Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, and, above all, Charles Darwin promulgated a "materialistic conception of reality" that "eventually infected virtually every area of our culture, from politics and economics to literature and music."

Not content with bewailing the intelligentsia's falling away from faith, the author proposed to do something about it. "Discovery Institute's Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture seeks nothing less than the overthrow of materialism and its damning cultural legacies," he wrote. He went on to detail a 20-year plan to replace "materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God," and to replace materialist science with a new scientific paradigm "consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."

The immediate impact of the posting of The Wedge on the Web was almost nil. The Internet was far from being the instant echo chamber of news and ideas it's since become. (On Feb. 7, 1999, Google had all of eight employees.) Outside Seattle, hardly anyone had heard of the Discovery Institute, let alone its Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture. By last year, Seattle's DI and the center were internationally known as the world's most respectable and most talked-about and quoted resource for the new brand of "science" called intelligent design.

In retrospect, the successful campaign to disseminate intelligent-design theory is all the more astonishing because it was achieved with remarkably modest resources and promoted by a tiny cadre. The American scientific establishment has billions of dollars annually to promote programs; the Discovery Institute's overall budget has never much exceeded $4 million annually, and much of an increase in recent years is due to a near–$10 million grant to study local transportation issues, not biology or education. Yet until the decision this past December in the case of Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover School District, the Discovery Institute's pro-intelligent-design slogan "teach the controversy" seemed to be overtaking Nike's "just do it" as the most successful sales mantra ever to come from the great Northwest. "Considering that they did it with very few people, very little money, and no established power base, it's far and away the most successful campaign of its kind I've ever seen," says Philip Gold, a former Discovery fellow.

Discovery Institute founder Bruce Chapman, in a 2000 photo taken in Bellevue.

Chapman: Declan Mccullagh Photography

Founded by an out-of-office politician named Bruce Chapman, Discovery grew out of a short-lived Seattle branch office of Indianapolis' Hudson Institute, a 40-year-old conservative think tank founded by Cold War theorist Herman Kahn. For most of its existence, Discovery Institute occupied a dumpy office suite in an old- fashioned downtown Seattle office block. Discovery's first outings into the public-policy arena were very much in the spirit of the long-standing goals of Seattle's reigning political establishment: good government, strict law enforcement, conservative fiscal policy, and a forward-looking transit system for the increasingly congested Puget Sound basin.

But if he didn't know already, Chapman soon learned that a think tank, particularly a brand-new one, has to trim its sails to the winds it encounters if it's to reach any harbor at all. Times had changed since the 1970s, when he and his East Coast coterie arrived to energize the sleepy, clubby Seattle political scene. The liberal Republican issues that had proved so effective 20 years before had lost their sizzle.

Chapman's own convictions had changed, as well. His stint inside the Beltway, as director of the Census and working for Reagan policy chief Edwin Meese, had exposed him to tough-minded, right-leaning ideologues and brought him intoxicatingly close to the centers of power. Finding no post of comparable responsibility open to him under the less-ideological presidency of George H.W. Bush, Chapman returned to the relatively brackish pond of Seattle. He was a considerably more doctrinaire conservative than when he departed.

"I think he had a hard time at first," says David Brewster, founder of Seattle Weekly and an ally during Chapman's Seattle City Council days. "He'd developed a taste for serious politics, and the issues that interested us in Seattle must have seemed pretty small potatoes. He'd gotten more serious about his religion, and that doesn't play very well in this town. Plus, he'd lost touch with his circle of friends and colleagues here, who had all gone off in their own various directions. He found himself with no ready-made base and had to build one for himself."

First Hudson, then Discovery provided Chapman with a platform, but it was not until 1994 that he found both a big defining issue to lend Discovery a distinct identity and the means to push it vigorously. Introduced to the idea of intelligent design by a young philosophy professor named Steven C. Meyer, Chapman realized that this new approach to re-establishing spiritual values in the search for scientific knowledge not only spoke to his own needs and those of many others but offered access to some serious money if he could persuade the purse holders that he and his institute could do something to further their mutual goals.

By 1995, Chapman and an old friend, college roommate, and Discovery board member, George Gilder, were negotiating with the ultraconservative Ahmanson family of Southern California for a substantial grant to set up a program within Discovery Institute to promote intelligent design as a way to break Darwin's seemingly unbreakable lock on science education in America. Once again, Meyer was of crucial assistance; he'd worked as a science tutor to one of the Ahmanson children. Gilder and Chapman left Los Angeles with a pledge of a quarter-million dollars a year for three years, and the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture was born.

The center's first and so far only director was Meyer, who retains his day job in the Department of Theology, Philosophy, and Chaplain Services at Whitworth College in Spokane, a 115-year-old private liberal-arts college whose mission is "to provide its diverse student body an education of the mind and heart, equipping its graduates to honor God, follow Christ, and serve humanity." To this end, the mission statement continues, "Whitworth's community of teacher-scholars is committed to rigorous and open intellectual inquiry and to the integration of Christian faith and learning." (The Whitworth connection is not mentioned on the center's Web site, where Meyer is described as holding a Ph.D. in the history of philosophy and science from Cambridge University in England.)

With stable funding in hand, the center set about recruiting "fellows" to pursue goals of supporting research by scientists and other scholars. Among the goals in the center's founding document: "challenging various aspects of neo-Darwinian theory"; "developing the scientific theory known as intelligent design"; "exploring the impact of scientific materialism on culture"; and encouraging "schools to improve science education by teaching students more fully about the theory of evolution, including the theory's scientific weaknesses as well as its strengths."

The roster of fellows has grown apace over the past 10 years and numbers 44 now (only one of them female). The Web site of the Center for Science and Culture, as it is known now (www.discovery.org/csc), describes the list of fellows as "including biologists, biochemists, chemists, physicists, philosophers and historians of science, and public policy and legal experts, many of whom also have affiliations with colleges and universities." This list avoids mentioning that only seven fellows hold advanced degrees in biological sciences, while 13 profess philosophy and/or theology at such religiously oriented institutions of higher learning as Biola College in Los Angeles, Messiah College of Gratham, Pa., and Billy Graham's alma mater, Wheaton College, in Wheaton, Ill.

With such a roster, very little of the center's research into the weaknesses of Darwinism has been of the experimental, lab-oriented, peer-reviewed kind. Instead, in books, publications, and interviews, it has hewed to a tightly focused message: Intelligent design is not dogmatically antiscience, or even antievolution; on the contrary, it is an attack on dogma, on the stifling orthodoxy of modern Darwinism. Pointing out Darwin's ideological and evidential feet of clay is only part of the larger mission to open the scientific discourse to evidence and viewpoints that have been suppressed, even persecuted, by the Darwinian establishment. All we ask, the fellows have trumpeted again and again, is the opportunity to make our case, to see our evidence given equal time and exposure with Darwinism, in the media, in the academy—and in the schools.

In parallel with a mission of training the media to take it seriously, the Center for Science and Culture from the beginning had been looking for local school districts and state boards of education that might be sympathetic to the campaign. It struck gold near home in 1999. School authorities (and parents) in Skagit County's Burlington-Edison School District discovered that for going on 10 years, one of its high- school science teachers, Roger DeHart, had routinely been omitting part of the state-approved biology textbook to make room for his selected readings on evolution, most notably a little book called Of Pandas and People. It is devoted to highlighting questions unanswered by mainstream Darwinism and suggesting that the new science of intelligent design might provide answers.

Some district parents, then the American Civil Liberties Union, began threatening legal action against what they claimed was a veiled intrusion of religious teaching into the classroom. DeHart found himself with some parents on his side, but the decisive support came from the Discovery Institute, which announced to the world that the Darwinian establishment was interfering with a teacher's academic freedom. After a two-year tug-of-war, DeHart quit to continue the struggle in other ways as a Discovery Institute–subsidized martyr and witness to the intelligent-design cause. (He was still at it as recently as last May, testifying about his ordeal to a sympathetic committee of the Kansas State Board of Education, which was then looking into making intelligent design part of that state's high-school curriculum.)

Across the country, Discovery Institute fellows offered expert testimony in public and strategic advice in private. As the front widened, the message was honed for maximum acceptability.

Across the country, Discovery Institute fellows offered expert testimony in public and strategic advice in private: Texas, Kansas, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, California. As the front widened, the message was honed for maximum acceptability. Although the founding documents of intelligent design proclaimed an intention of replacing Darwinian materialism with a new God-centered, faith-based science, the public pitch was much more moderate. As opponents of intelligent design scrambled to hone their own message, advocates ceased to insist even that their brand of biology be taught. Instead, the new mantra became "teach the controversy." Inform teachers and students that an alternative to Darwin existed, refer them to appropriate textbooks and other readings, and let them make up their own minds. Surely no civil libertarian could object to such an open invitation to debate.

Indeed, as more and more school boards seriously took up consideration of intelligent-design programs, the Discovery Institute became concerned that some of the people they were trying to influence might grow so enthusiastic as to push the newly moderate ideological envelope. They professed no knowledge of the origins of the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture's founding Wedge document. They also dropped the loaded word "renewal" from the name and ceased demanding that intelligent design replace Darwinism in the high-school curriculum, or that it even be actively taught there. All that was asked now was that students be apprised that there was a controversy.

That was apparently all that was in question when, in late 2004, a district school board in a small suburb of York, Pa., voted 6-3 that high-school students "will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwin's theory and of other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design." A month later, the board mandated that starting in January 2005, ninth-grade biology teachers would be required to read to their students a four-paragraph statement encouraging students to look into alternatives to Darwin and suggesting Of Pandas and People (available in the school library) as a good place to start.

Even though the new policy did not include active teaching of intelligent-design theory, Discovery Institute fellows issued a warning that the policy went too far and might, in fact, damage the cause rather than further it. Little did they know how damaging it would be. On Dec. 14, 2004, a district parent opposed to the new policy filed suit in federal court to block it. Tammy J. Kitzmiller and 11 other parents were represented in their suit against the Dover Area School District by 13 lawyers from the ACLU, the Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the National Center for Science Education. Against this legal lineup, the constitutional-law equivalent of the Pittsburgh Steelers offensive line, were the Dover board's defenders, fielded by the conservative Thomas More Law Center of Ann Arbor, Mich.

Considering that the Center for Science and Culture had publicly opposed making the situation in Dover a test case, it seems curious that two of the Discovery Institute's most prominent fellows signed on to testify at the trial as expert witnesses: Lehigh University biochemist Michael J. Behe and University of Idaho microbiologist Scott Minnich. But testify they did, and it was their testimony, more than that of many experts fielded by the plaintiffs, that left the scientific credentials of intelligent design in tatters.

Behe's day in court began placidly enough, as More Law Center attorney Robert Muise established his scientific credentials, then coached him through a recital of numerous now-discarded theories once widely believed by reputable scientists—that the sun rotates around the Earth, that light travels through space as vibrations in an invisible ether—to suggest that Darwin's version of evolution might soon be due to join them. Behe also quoted a formidable list of well-known biologists—Steven Jay Gould, Francis Crick, even super-Darwinist Richard Dawkins—as stating that there were problems with Darwinism as currently formulated. At the same time, Behe modestly suggested that intelligent design, at least as formulated in his book, Darwin's Black Box, provides a simpler, more reasonable view of how living things came to be the way they are: Someone (or something) with a purpose designed them that way.

Almost as soon as Eric Rothschild began his cross-examination, Behe's cultivated scientific calm began to crumble. Rothschild baited him like a picador, dashing in, planting a barb, turning away to attack from a new direction before his victim realized it. Hour by hour, Rothschild got Behe to admit:

In the last testimony of the Dover trial, Discovery Institute fellow Minnich presented a low-key, engineer's approach to intelligent design but ended up just as ideologically pummeled in cross-examination by plaintiff's attorney Steven Harvey.

U.S. District Judge John E. Jones

In the decision handed down on Dec. 20, 2005, U.S. District Judge John E. Jones III, appointed to the federal bench in 2002 by George W. Bush, refers frequently to inconsistencies and equivocations in Behe's testimony, primarily in reference to this question: How does intelligent design differ in any significant way from earlier attempts to avoid conflict with the Second Amendment prohibition of state-supported or countenanced religion? Judge Jones' answer: Not enough to distinguish it in law from the various versions of creationism already banned from the schools by a series of unequivocal U.S. Supreme Court decisions beginning in 1968.

Intelligent design, said the judge, is creationism with a scientific veneer. Advocates contend that nature offers any reasonable observer evidence of purposeful design while refusing to offer an opinion on who or what that designer might have been. On the contrary, said the judge, the evidence presented in the case should suffice to persuade any reasonable observer that the purpose of intelligent design is to slip God back into the classroom through the transparent device of refusing to mention his name. The Dover School Board's intelligent-design policy is unconstitutional. The board will pay all costs of the plaintiffs. Case closed.

The evidence, said the judge, should persuade a reasonable person that the purpose of intelligent design is to slip God into the classroom through the transparent device of refusing to mention his name.

By the time the holidays had passed, the stunned silence following the court's decision was followed by a fusillade of attacks from Discovery Institute personnel, including Bruce Chapman himself, who appeared on a Salem Radio Network talk show to denounce the judge as a "judicial activist" and his decision as an example of unwarranted judicial intrusion into academic freedom—a concept now stood on its head to protect the rights of outsiders to dictate educational policy to teachers rather than the other way around.

One point made over and over by the losing side in Dover is that the decision has the force of law only in the middle of Pennsylvania's three federal judicial districts; therefore, intelligent design still has a clean bill of health in all the other areas of the country where advocates have brought it to the attention of school authorities. There are a lot of them. School districts and/or state boards of education in Texas, Kansas, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, and California have given intelligent design some level of approval in their curricular guidelines.

In reality, Judge Jones' decision should give a strong warning to anyone thinking of ignoring its provisions. Though it is "law" only in mid-Pennsylvania, the decision is so thorough and detailed in citation of constitutional precedent that most other courts would be likely to pay a great deal of attention to it, rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel. Other such midlevel decisions have proved decisive in earlier creationism cases: McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education technically applies only to the eastern district of Arkansas, but the Supreme Court has cited it approvingly in decisions on church-state issues.

There is also a financial impact in Jones' decision. School districts and state boards may not want to embark on a fight over intelligent design if there's a chance that, as in Pennsylvania, they might find themselves liable for millions of dollars in court and lawyer costs. There are already rumors that cooler heads are prevailing in some of the ongoing state disputes.

For local observers of the evolution wars, perhaps the most interesting aftereffect of the Dover bring-down is: What will the long-term impact on the Discovery Institute be? A number of former contributors have already cut back or eliminated support. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which has pledged nearly $1 million a year for 10 years to the transportation arm of the institute, is known to be both uncomfortable with the adverse publicity that's come its way through funding an anti-Darwin organization and concerned that some of the funds earmarked for transport issues have been applied to other areas of Discovery's operations, including a substantial portion of Chapman's $120,000-a-year salary.

While trying to maintain a position above the partisan fray, the Discovery Institute has found itself more and more isolated ideologically. Former fellows have departed, concerned by what they see as a drift away from policy issues toward doctrinaire religiosity. It has not escaped the notice of those who question the nonpartisan bona fides of the institute that the executive director, Steven Buri, is a member of the fundamentalist Christian Antioch Bible Church of Kirkland, which describes its congregation as "not a collection of people to whom paid clergy minister" but "a called out collection of ministers who are doing God's work in the world." Further, "We believe that God gives His Church a great variety of ways to influence culture, business, government, education, and so on, and that He expects His Church to be salt and light throughout the community."

Some find the recent appointment to the Discovery board of directors of reclusive California evangelical and creationist Howard Ahmanson disturbing. Others were upset when it emerged, in the online journal Salon, that in the summer of 2000, Discovery Institute President Chapman had counseled a breakaway faction of Episcopalians opposed to the ordination of gays on how to fund their desired schism from the mainline denomination. Chapman addressed a memo to fellow dissident Episcopalians stating that for their campaign to succeed, fund-raising was critical. But that "is going to be affected greatly by whether we have a clear, compelling forward strategy." Ahmanson money might well be available to underwrite that strategy, Chapman continued, but "the Ahmansons are only going to be available to us if we have such a strategy and I think it would be wise to involve them directly in settling on it. . . . "

The question naturally arises: With Ahmanson the single biggest funder of the Center for Science and Culture and sitting on the Discovery board, to what degree is he consulted on strategy in intelligent-design issues? (So far as the schism in the American Episcopal community goes, Chapman is no longer personally involved in the painful issue; he was received into the Catholic Church in 2002.)

Seattle Weekly began making inquiries for this story in mid-2005, but neither Chapman nor any Discovery Institute fellow has been willing to be interviewed. A last attempt to elicit comment, e-mailed to spokesperson Rob Crowther on Jan. 4, elicited the following: "With the start of the new year all of the Fellows and staff are quite busy and their schedules are completely full. I think you'll find more than enough information on our website that you are welcome to quote from. If you want to submit questions in writing, I'd be happy to pass those along and see if anyone has time to respond, but I can't make any guarantees." A number of questions were submitted; none was answered.

Chapman's friends describe him as an agreeable, low-key, generous individual; ex-KIRO-TV news anchor Susan Hutchinson, who has served on the Discovery board for 10 years, calls him "one of the finest and best men I know in this city." Others describe Chapman's apparent drift toward stark conservative positions as something of a stance: "Bruce is a contrarian, and [intelligent design] was a contrarian idea," ex–Discovery fellow Edward J. Larson told The New York Times last summer. But it's hard to hear the voice of a generous contrarian in Chapman's Dec. 21 broadcast interview with right-wing radio pundit Janet Parshall in the wake of the Dover decision: If Judge Jones' decision stands, says Chapman, "you are going to have self-censorship around this country like you have never seen. You think all that's been happening on Christmas has been under attack, simply the fact that somebody had a personal religious faith will be used against studying what they have to say. This is a remarkable victory, frankly, for the ACLU."

No one believes that Judge Jones' decision, even if it's replicated in courtrooms across the country, is going to stop the campaign against materialism and for a God-centered worldview. But it surely must be seen as a catastrophic defeat for the notion of intelligent design, and no single institution is so identified with it, and has more of its financial and intellectual resources tied up in it, than the Discovery Institute of Seattle. Maybe the group can regroup and make a comeback, but for now, the mighty wedge is irreparably blunted.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: crevolist; discoveryinstitute; evolution; idjunkscience; ignorantkooks; youngearthcultists
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To: Aquinasfan; Right Wing Professor

Oh no, not the debunked "list of 400" again....

Anybody still have the links to shoot this one down?


261 posted on 02/02/2006 6:52:02 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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Comment #262 Removed by Moderator

To: Syncretic
You can quibble about it, but I think that the message that the public picks up from the Darwinists is clear: "No miracles. Never was and never will be a miracle. Miracles are for morons. The Church's claims about miracles are all frauds."

That's what's known as "projection"

263 posted on 02/02/2006 7:18:33 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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Comment #264 Removed by Moderator

To: Junior
Willful ignorance is Biblical...
 
It appears that you are RIGHT!!
 
 
 
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:34
   Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.
 

NIV Exodus 9:21
   But those who ignored the word of the LORD left their slaves and livestock in the field.
 

NIV Deuteronomy 22:1
  If you see your brother's ox or sheep straying, do not ignore it but be sure to take it back to him.
   Do the same if you find your brother's donkey or his cloak or anything he loses. Do not ignore it.
 

NIV Psalms 73:22
   I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before you.
 

NIV Psalms 119:139
  My zeal wears me out, for my enemies ignore your words.
 

NIV Proverbs 1:24-33
 24.  But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
 25.  since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke,
 26.  I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you--
 27.  when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
 28.  "Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me.
 29.  Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD,
 30.  since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke,
 31.  they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
 32.  For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
 33.  but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm."
 

NIV Proverbs 8:33
  Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it.
 

NIV Proverbs 10:17
   He who heeds discipline shows the way to life, but whoever ignores correction leads others astray.
 

NIV Proverbs 13:18
   He who ignores discipline comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored.
 
 
 
NIV Proverbs 15:32
   He who ignores discipline despises himself, but whoever heeds correction gains understanding.
 

NIV Proverbs 30:2-3
 2.  "I am the most ignorant of men; I do not have a man's understanding.
 3.  I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One.
 

NIV Isaiah 45:20
   "Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save.
 

NIV Hosea 4:6
   my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.
 

NIV Acts 3:17-18
 17.  "Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders.
 18.  But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ  would suffer.
 

NIV Acts 17:30
   In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
 

NIV Romans 11:25
   I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:1
  For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 12:1
   Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:37-38
 37.  If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.
 38.  If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.
 
 

NIV Ephesians 4:18
   They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
 

NIV 1 Timothy 1:13
  Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.
 

NIV Hebrews 2:2-3
 2.  For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,
 3.  how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
 

NIV Hebrews 5:2
  He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness.
 

NIV 1 Peter 1:14
   As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
 

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
   He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

265 posted on 02/02/2006 7:31:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Aquinasfan
Most are not in academe. Few are in biology. Some have asked to be removed from the list.

In contrast, Project Steve just added Steve number 698!

266 posted on 02/02/2006 7:34:07 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: Oztrich Boy; Junior
...the wilfully ignorant ...

Hey Junner!!

I found your long lost brother!!!

267 posted on 02/02/2006 7:34:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Google has ruined the joy of posting in a foreign language,

What!?

The Appearance of Great Knowledge has now gotten it's veil ripped??

268 posted on 02/02/2006 7:35:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: shuckmaster
Exactly! That's why there are so many different species.
154 posted on 02/01/2006 6:08:08 PM CST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
 
 
 
Make up yer mind!!

269 posted on 02/02/2006 7:37:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: narby
That's only because you don't have an answer for his posts.

HMmmm...

"The bible writers were ignorant men"

270 posted on 02/02/2006 7:39:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: microgood
If evolutionists even stated that because we do not know everything that happened in the past, some parts of the theory will never be known for sure would at least be a start.

"Never show weakness!"

271 posted on 02/02/2006 7:40:51 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Right Wing Professor
The evolution of behavior in ants is discussed in Sociobiology. You should read it. It's a classic.

A moving example of living ROM's.

272 posted on 02/02/2006 7:42:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Syncretic
So are you saying that Darwinists do believe in miracles?

Of course most "Darwinists" (if there were such a thing) believe in miracles. Most scientists are Christians, after all.

Scientists just don't confuse the possibility of miracles with actual physical evidence that those miracles happened.

And a follow up question if I may: If Darwinists do believe in miracles, why are they so openly hostile to Intelligent Design proponents who are basically just saying that life was created miraculously by a Designer?

Because ID proponents pretend that such an assertion is scientific in nature. It isn't, unless you're willing to re-define the word "science" (as is Dr. Behe, the leading proponent of ID) to include such pursuits as astrology.

Words mean things. We should fight PC attempts to change those meanings wherever they appear.

273 posted on 02/02/2006 7:43:40 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: andysandmikesmom

Works for me!


274 posted on 02/02/2006 7:46:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: dread78645
"Beware the man of one book" placemark

"Beware the Man of the Book" placemark

275 posted on 02/02/2006 7:48:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
The Appearance of Great Knowledge has now gotten it's veil ripped?

More like, no one knows you're a dog on the internet. Although I dispute that; usually dogs reveal themselves in a few posts.

276 posted on 02/02/2006 8:00:10 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: unlearner
Efficient coding by the Designer. Reusability. Wise planning which took into consideration interdependence within organisms and the ecosystem.

Oh good. I'm glad we've dispensed with the scientific facade. Godidit.

What you don't know, however, is that the Designer (u.c.!) did it last Thursday, and simply designed you with memories to think that you existed earlier.

277 posted on 02/02/2006 8:02:58 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: PatrickHenry
How does intelligent design differ in any significant way from earlier attempts to avoid conflict with the Second Amendment prohibition of state-supported or countenanced religion?

The NRA will be very surprised at this interpretation of the Second Amendment.

278 posted on 02/02/2006 8:13:21 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: unlearner
"The genetic codes of organisms make no sense unless there is common descent."

Then they are not subject to being falsified. You are unwilling to be wrong and therefore confuse dogma with science.

Yeah, thanks for lecturing me on science, a field that despite 80 or so published papers, I'm totally ignorant about. You've published how many? Several hundred or so?

You think that because ribosomal 16S/23S yields a single phylogenetic tree, its common descent can't be falsified? So if we found an entirely separate and distinct tree, that wouldn't be falsification?

So it's the regularities that prove UCD... oh, except when there are irregularities, then that proves UCD.

No one said or even implied the latter. You've started lying: you must be getting desperate.

The scientifically correct way to state this is that UCD leads us to predictions of gene and protein sequences which are confirmed by testing. The question is whether other possibilities are supported by the same predictions. A correlation between structure and gene sequences, or a correlation between function and gene sequences hardly amounts to UCD being essential. It could just as easily support common design

No. We can always come up with multiple hypotheses consistent with any body of data, last Thursdayism being the most universal. The fact that you can hypothesize an all-powerful being that, because of said being's omnipotence, can explain anything, doesn't mean you have another scientific explanation. You've merely got another explanation.

You could claim to already have your doctorate in molecular biology. The difference is that I know my friend. I don't know you. (And you don't know me.)

My regular web page is linked on my profile.

Here's my (somewhat outdated) web page and publication list, at a University of Nebraska domain name. Here's my blog. If you dispute I'm the author of them, send me an innocuous phrase by FReepmail, and I'll include it in the latter. Alternatively, I'll update the c.v. up to any publication number less than 83 that you request.

279 posted on 02/02/2006 8:17:28 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: Syncretic
"No miracles. Never was and never will be a miracle. Miracles are for morons. The Church's claims about miracles are all frauds."

HMmmm...

 

Kinda undercuts the whole of the Scriptures; eh?



NIV John 2:11
   This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.
 
 
NIV John 4:47-54
 47.  When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.
 48.  "Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe."
 49.  The royal official said, "Sir, come down before my child dies."
 50.  Jesus replied, "You may go. Your son will live."   The man took Jesus at his word and departed.
 51.  While he was still on the way, his servants met him with the news that his boy was living.
 52.  When he inquired as to the time when his son got better, they said to him, "The fever left him yesterday at the seventh hour."
 53.  Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, "Your son will live." So he and all his household believed.
 54.  This was the second miraculous sign that Jesus performed, having come from Judea to Galilee.
 

NIV John 2:23
   Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name.
 

NIV John 3:2
   He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
 
 
NIV Matthew 11:20-25
 20.  Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
 21.  "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
 22.  But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
 23.  And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.  If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
 24.  But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."
 25.  At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
 
 
 
NIV Mark 6:1-6
 1.  Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples.
 2.  When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.   "Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles!
 3.  Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.
 4.  Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor."
 5.  He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.
 6.  And he was amazed at their lack of faith.   Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village.
 

NIV Mark 9:39-40
 39.  "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 
 40.  for whoever is not against us is for us.
 

NIV Luke 19:37-38
 37.  When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:
 38.  "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"
 

NIV Luke 23:8
   When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform some miracle.
 
 
NIV John 6:1-2
 1.  Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias),
 2.  and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the miraculous signs he had performed on the sick.
 

NIV John 6:14
   After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world."
 

NIV John 7:3-5
 3.  Jesus' brothers said to him, "You ought to leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples may see the miracles you do.
 4.  No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world."
 5.  For even his own brothers did not believe in him.
 

NIV John 7:21
   Jesus said to them, "I did one miracle, and you are all astonished.
 

NIV John 7:31
   Still, many in the crowd put their faith in him. They said, "When the Christ comes, will he do more miraculous signs than this man?"
 

NIV John 9:16
 16.  Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."   But others asked, "How can a sinner do such miraculous signs?" So they were divided.
 
 

NIV John 10:25-26
 25.  Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,
 26.  but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
 

NIV John 10:31-32
 31.  Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
 32.  but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
 

NIV John 10:37-38
 37.  Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
 38.  But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
 

NIV John 11:47
   Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting of the Sanhedrin.   "What are we accomplishing?" they asked. "Here is this man performing many miraculous signs.
 

NIV John 12:37
   Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
 

NIV John 14:11
   Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
 

NIV John 20:30
   Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
 

NIV Acts 2:22
   "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
 

NIV Acts 2:43
   Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.
 

NIV Acts 4:16
   "What are we going to do with these men?" they asked. "Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it.
 

NIV Acts 4:22
   For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.
 

NIV Acts 5:12
   The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon's Colonnade.
 

NIV Acts 6:8
   Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.
 

NIV Acts 8:6
  When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said.
 

NIV Acts 8:13
   Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
 

NIV Acts 14:3
   So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders.
 
 
NIV Acts 15:12
   The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
 

NIV Acts 19:11-12
 11.  God did extraordinary miracles through Paul,
 12.  so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
 

NIV Romans 15:18-19
 18.  I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done--
 19.  by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:22-24
 22.  Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
 23.  but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
 24.  but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 12:7-11
 7.  Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
 8.  To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
 9.  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
 10.  to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,  and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
 11.  All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 12:28-31
28.  And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
 29.  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
 30.  Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues ? Do all interpret?
 31.  But eagerly desire  the greater gifts.   And now I will show you the most excellent way.
 
 
 
NIV 2 Corinthians 12:12
   The things that mark an apostle--signs, wonders and miracles--were done among you with great perseverance.
 

NIV Galatians 3:5
   Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
 

NIV Hebrews 2:4
   God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

280 posted on 02/02/2006 8:18:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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