U.S. Brings Back the .45

Strategy Page ^ | January 27, 2006

[John Jorsett]

After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as “official alternatives” to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches.

The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs.

SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don’t hold your breath.

[hiredhand]

With rifles, maybe. The variances in ballistic coefficients between large diameter bullets, with slower rifle cartridges can make a significant difference with accuracy at rifle distances.

But with handguns, the differences in accuracy at usable distances isn't worth splitting hairs over.

I was just going over ballistics tables from a reloading manual here, and a 260gr .45ACP load transfers "roughly" a full 50FtLbs more torque on target than the hottest 125gr 9mm load I could find.

Having said all that...I've got a light class 1000 yard rifle and when I bought it a couple of years ago, I was having GREAT difficulty getting better than MOA accuracy from it even at 300 yards. I went to the oldest gun shop in the area and talked to a guy who looked a little younger than Methuselah, and the load data that he gave me for that rifle was a shock!

The rifle is chambered for .30-06 Springfield. He told me to use 49gr of IMR-4064 behind a 180gr bullet. This is OVER the max load in one of my manuals by a little over a full grain! The guy told me (as I later discovered by experience) that the twist rate on my barrel wasn't "slow enough" to stabilize my previous load.

With rifles, barrel twist rates and the projectile weight factor HEAVILY on stabilization of the projectile once it's free and clear of the bore. With that one rifle of mine, it went from 4" groups at 300 yards, down to 3/8" groups at 525 yards once I managed to achieve the correct velocity of the projectile.

The problem with the previous load (168gr HPBT) was that with a 1:10" twist barrel, I would have had to use a hotter load in order to get enough velocity to stabilize the bullet in flight. I could have done this, but they encouraged me to use the heavier bullets because they said that although overall drop was greater, midrange trajectory would be farther out.

This entire "barrel-twist-rate/projectile-weight/velocity" relationship is much less pronounced with handguns because their maximum effective range is so much less than rifles.

Not only this, but the typical engagement distance makes it such that it's a real non issue usually. :-) Most handgunners (even police!) fire the first several rounds into the ground anyway...sometimes even ruining holsters...during a gunfight because of stress and panic.

[Stonewall Jackson]

I have two M1911A1's. The first is one that was made in 1963 by Essex Arms for the Brazilian Army and is highly accurate. The second is a WW2-era pistol that I inherited from my grandfather. He had it refurbished by a German master gunsmith the last time he was stationed there and used it to become the 5th Corps pistol champion. I've only shot it a few times, but it is just as good as the other, despite being twenty years older.

[Double Tap]

Please, stop passing these myths off as fact. An unsupported chamber will not cause a Kb. It might cause a case failure if the ammo is loaded too hot.

Glock has not made any design changes to the barrels of the 40's or 45's. They did make a locking lug change to the G19 barrel because of problems NYC was having with reliability. But not because of Kb's.

[04-Bravo]

I have a Colt 1911A1, and it's my sentimental favorite.

But the best modern combat pistol I've ever fired is the H&K USP .45. It has a long double-action trigger pull, but its single-action is great, and it sits low in your hand like a 1911.

[hiredhand]

HA!....that's funny!....er, sort of! :-)

[jrd]

but all good generals have to mettle in something to get their name in the history books!

[R. Scott]

Sight picture and sight alignment, breathing, trigger pull – and not flinching when firing. The biggest problem I saw on the range was people who were afraid of the noise. They would tighten up when pulling the trigger and their flinch was actually frightning to watch.

[Prost1]

I like the .40 as well. I own the Ruger P94 model model.
Accurate with excellent hitting power. And a bit lighter than the .45 cal. That was a key decision.

[Fido969]

The 10mm is a great round - manageable, and about 80% as powerful as a .44 mag.

My Glock 20, with 15 round mags, is plenty of firepower.

They may need to mak some small modifications to make it into a miliary gun, but I don't understand why the military hasn't jumped on that round.

[Ro_Thunder]

I thought that looked familiar!

I've got a H&K USP 9mm Compact myself - love it, wonderful sidearm!

I use hydroshock hollow-points in it. Need to get some cheap ammo for practice.

Figure if I need something bigger the "schnik schnik" of the 12 gauge'll do.

:-)

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Stop physically dumbing down the military and police...

(ever shoot a .454 Casull or a .44 magnum for that matter. .45 ACP is a cakewalk in comparison)

How about chamering them for a long Colt cartridge? Make them do more push ups? Sounds good to me...

[Euro-American Scum]

I carry a Glock G21 45 acp. I love it.

G21 and G30. Pick one from Column A, two from Column B, the bad guys are dead either way.

[szweig]

I recall hearing that part of the reason they switched away from .45 to 9mm was PC. The female recruits had trouble racking the slide and some trouble with the recoil. So what to do? Make 'em practive more or dumb down the whole affair with 9mm? The rest is history. Whether this is true or not I can't say fo' sho'...SSZ

[litehaus]

"Fs" in BUFF really stands for "fat fellow."

B-ig U-gly F-at F-ellow?

[MonroeDNA]

There are studies that compare stopping power of various rounds out on the internet. Hard to argue with them.

Two of them are the Evans and Marshals compilation of one-shot-stops, and the Strausberg (SP?) goat tests.

I believe that the .40 scored highest in these, and the .357 was close. The .45 was good, but down the list somewhat. And the nine was down.

Objective data. We all have our favorite calibers, but these are real tests, actual killings.

My personal thing is recommending the .357 SIG to the military, because they want penetration, impact, and have to use FMJ.

The .357 SIG will penetrate a lot further than the .45 in FMJ. And hits like a mule kick.

[hiredhand]

I'm NOT a Glock fan, and for no real reason to be honest with you. HOWEVER....

I went to a shop to buy some supplies during lunch one day, and a guy was bringing his .40S&W Glock in to have it repaired. We all got a good look at it. The guy was shooting "boxed" Federal ammo (NOT reloads), and from all appearances, the case head BLEW right above the feed ramp.

So, the bottom of the head failed (if you were holding the weapon to fire it). It made a real mess out of the pistol, and we all exchanged glances and were happy that we owned either Kimber or Colt .45ACPs. :-) The guy who worked there said they had see more than this one which had failed in this manner.

[Recon Dad]

He's got the 1911 they give him and he owns a Glock and H&K all .45's. So you could say he's a .45 type of guy.

[hiredhand]

I was going to ask.... I'm happy to hear he's carrying a .45ACP!

[ExSoldier]

Last time I fired an M1911 .45 I couldn't have killed myself with a shot to the temple it was so inaccurate. I'd keep the Beretta, unless they're coming out with an new/accurate .45 design.

That's odd because when I was on the 9th Infantry Division Pistol Team (Composite Bullseye) we only used Colt Gold Cup 1911A1 45's. Still, if I had to choose ONE 45 for a "go to war" gun straight out of the box, knowing it would be 100% accurate and 100% reliable I go with the H&K USP Tactical. It'll take a threaded suppressor, too. I currently CCW an H&K USP (45) standard size. 12+1 in the gun and 12 in a spare mag on my left hip. I usually carry OWB in a Galco model "Concealable" open top and I use the "Concealable" 1.5 tapered belt with a Galco quick remove ammo carrier. Using components made to go together makes this an extremely comfortable rig and it virtually disappears under a XXL Hawaiian shirt here in Miami, FL. I wear a pastel t-shirt underneath and I'm just another tourist with a big belly. I compete IDPA with the exact same rig.

[Double Tap]

Yes, and Federal finally admitted they had defective ammo. They did a recall and have since fixed the problem.