Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

WHICH CREATION STORY?
Sullivan County Tenn ^ | Unknown | Rev. James W. Watkins

Posted on 01/22/2006 8:12:41 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez

Creationists call us to believe the Biblical creation story as a literal account of historical events. However, Genesis contains two distinctly different creation accounts. Which creation story are they calling us to "literally" believe?

For generations, serious students of Scripture have noted stark divisions and variations in the age of the Hebrew, its style and language within Genesis. As we have it now, Genesis is actually a composite of three written primary sources, each with its own character, favorite words and distinctly different names for God. Such differences all but evaporate when translated into English, but they are clear in the ancient Hebrew text.

The first creation account, Genesis. 1:1 to Genesis. 2:4a, was written during or after the Jews' Babylonian captivity. This fully developed story explains creation in terms of the ancient near eastern world view of its time. A watery chaos is divided by the dome (firmament) of the sky. The waters under the dome are gathered and land appears. Lights are affixed in the dome. All living things are created. The story pictures God building the cosmos as a supporting ecosystem for humanity. Finally, humanity, both male and female, is created, and God rests.

The second Creation story, Genesis 2:4b to 2:25, found its written form several centuries before the Genesis. 1:1 story. This text is a less developed and much older story. It was probably passed down for generations around the camp fires of desert dwellers before being written. It begins by describing a desert landscape, no plants or herbs, no rain; only a mist arises out of the earth. Then the Lord God forms man of the dust of the ground, creates an oasis-like Garden of Eden to support the "man whom he had formed." In this story, God creates animal life while trying to provide the man "a helper fit for him." None being found, God takes a rib from the man's side and creates the first woman. These two creation stories clearly arise out of different histories and reflect different concerns with different sequences of events. Can they either or both be literal history? Obviously not.

Many serious students of Scripture consider the first eleven chapters of Genesis as non-literal, pre-history type literature, with Abram in Genesis. 12:1 being the first literal historical figure in the Bible. This understanding of Genesis causes an uproar in some quarters. In most church communities, little of this textual study has filtered down to the pew. But, in their professional training, vast numbers of clergy have been exposed to this type of literary scriptural analysis.

In my over 28 years as a pastor, I have encountered many people who are unnecessarily conflicted because they have been made to believe that, to be faithfully religious, one must take a literal view of the Genesis creation accounts. Faced with their scientific understandings going one direction and their spiritual search another, many have felt compelled to give up their spiritual search altogether. This all too common reaction is an unnecessary shame!

So, the next time someone asks you if you believe the Biblical story of creation, just remember the correct reply: "To which Biblical creation story do you refer?"


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bible; creation; crevolist; evolution; genesis; id; postedinwrongforum; religion
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 321-340341-360361-380 ... 561-563 next last
To: papertyger

I see you're an expert at quoting irrelevant scripture out of context as well. Congratulations, I'm sure the Lord is pleased with that.


341 posted on 01/25/2006 7:57:17 AM PST by newguy357
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 261 | View Replies]

To: dljordan
I'm already a Universal Life Minister and I've got my certificate to prove it. Need anybody married?

I've got my print online certificate. Haven't ordered one yet.

342 posted on 01/25/2006 7:57:19 AM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 337 | View Replies]

To: pby
Apparently, deists are in desperate need of evidences for their faith too.

Give my regards to Morton's Demon.

343 posted on 01/25/2006 7:58:50 AM PST by peyton randolph (As long is it does me no harm, I don't care if one worships Elmer Fudd.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 335 | View Replies]

To: MineralMan

MM, you are mistaken.

"The question of whether the first couple of chapters of Genesis are literal or story-telling makes no difference, really."

Unless you mean they make no difference to an atheist.

The lineage of Adam is absolutely necessary. Through Adam, we have all inherited a sin nature that can only be dealt with by the sacrifice of God Himself, through Jesus dieing on the cross.

If we instead evolved from apes, some of us would be of a line that had no sin. Also, if humans were from apes, the other humans would see how severly God dealt with Adam and Eve, that they would never do the same. That would open the door for prejudism.


344 posted on 01/25/2006 8:08:31 AM PST by Sensei Ern (Now, IB4Z! http://www.myspace.com/reconcomedy/ "Cowards cut and run. Heroes never do!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SuzyQue
Now, to get down to the crux of your argument: are you saying that women were not created in God's image, having been made instead from Adam's rib? Is this why this argument is important to you?

Wow. Do you look for offense intentionally where none is given? Is it your goal in life to be offended? If so, you will always succeed. First, in Paul's writings the account of woman being created from man is further confirmed. From 1 Corin. 11: 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

If you have a problem with that, that's fine. Take it up with Paul and with God. That said, of course woman is created in the image of God. God creating woman from man does not necessitate that woman was not created in the image of God also. In fact, it requires that she is. If you make an image of something, and then make an image of that image, shouldn't the second image still be made in the likeness of the original object? Why do you insist this can't be the case? Besides, God only took material from Adam--He then formed it to his purpose. But again, the purpose of my post had absolutely nothing to do with male-female specific creation order.

The purpose of my post is that Gen. 1 and 2 are NOT contradictory. The only contradictions you see are from your mind, not the text. Are things in the bible allegorical/symbolic? OF COURSE. Please point me to where I've said otherwise. Oh wait, you can't, because I didn't. Is Genesis actually symbolic? Maybe! It could be. The whole point of my post is that there is no reason it NEEDS to be. There is no contradiction that requires it.
345 posted on 01/25/2006 8:12:59 AM PST by newguy357
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 265 | View Replies]

To: Sensei Ern

"The lineage of Adam is absolutely necessary. Through Adam, we have all inherited a sin nature that can only be dealt with by the sacrifice of God Himself, through Jesus dieing on the cross.
"

OK, I'll grant you that, in terms of Christianity. However, the allegory would still make sense, given that humans created through evolutionary means would still be imperfect creatures, subject to error. Indeed, evolutionary origins of humanity would produce constant small errors in design, resulting in that very imperfection.

But, I realize that many Christians are convinced that the Genesis 1 and 2 accounts are literal. That's fine, if it helps them with their faith. Many other Christians, however, are not necessarily believers in the literality of the Genesis creation accounts. They still believe in the sinful nature of man and the need for salvation.

My point is that it doesn't matter, because being Christian means accepting those two things, along with a short list of others. Belief in man's sinful nature and the need for salvation through Jesus is the core of Christianity. The Genesis account is not. Either path leads to the same conclusion.


346 posted on 01/25/2006 8:14:22 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 344 | View Replies]

To: newguy357

Your inability to follow does not prove a lack of direction.


347 posted on 01/25/2006 8:24:31 AM PST by papertyger (We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 341 | View Replies]

To: Sensei Ern
Through Adam, we have all inherited a sin nature that can only be dealt with by the sacrifice of God Himself, through Jesus dieing on the cross.

So, since Jesus has died, we no longer have to worry about that inherited sin, do we?

348 posted on 01/25/2006 8:38:17 AM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 344 | View Replies]

To: Junior
So, I reiterate, why should the OT get the benefit of the doubt when contemporary writings from co-located cultures do not?

Your example of bats and birds is a fine reason to question your own presumptions.

You are actually arguing a failure to follow relatively recent naming conventions and categorizations constitutes an error.

How myopic is that?

349 posted on 01/25/2006 8:45:50 AM PST by papertyger (We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 336 | View Replies]

To: MineralMan

You are right, but people really get bent out of shape over it.


350 posted on 01/25/2006 8:49:05 AM PST by mel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: peyton randolph
"Give my regards to Morton's Demon."

He's standing right next to you..turn to him and tell him that I said, "Hello".

He's the one that encourages you to post about the FSM replacing God the Creator in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

He's the one that encourages you to be a deist despite the lack of evidence for your faith.

Your statement that you are a deist based on your own reason is something akin to making it possible for a person to have his own set of private facts "which others are not privy to...which is perfectly supported by the facts which the demon lets through the gate".

When faced with the external evidence for the Bible being God's inspired Word, Morton's Demon let you believe that the fulfilled prophecies were vague when they aren't vague at all. That was demonstrated to you...But, apparently, before that truth could sink in, Morton's Demon opened the gate and swept the truth out.

Morton's Demon also may have encouraged you to post, without any citation or factual evidence, that Nostradamus's prophecies are more accurate than the Bible's. It isn't true...but I'm sure the gate is wide open again.

Isn't it a little ironic that when pressed for evidences for your faith (in deism and the FSM)...in the end you are only left with Morton's Demon?

As usual, behind the sarcasm and thin veneer of intellectual appeal, there is no evidence for your belief system.

351 posted on 01/25/2006 8:52:58 AM PST by pby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 343 | View Replies]

To: papertyger
You are actually arguing a failure to follow relatively recent naming conventions and categorizations constitutes an error.

Bats != birds, no matter the "naming convention." A diety would know this, but primitive goat herders would not. Even more damning is the notion that locusts have four legs, or that pi = 3. I notice that whenever obvious Biblical errors come up, the apologists attempt to stretch reality to cover their beliefs. These "explanations" may placate the true believer, but to those with even an inkling of rationality they smack of sophistry.

If God ever had a hand in writing the Bible, His contribution has long since been papered over by generations of editors.

352 posted on 01/25/2006 8:56:23 AM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 349 | View Replies]

To: Junior
If God ever had a hand in writing the Bible, His contribution has long since been papered over by generations of editors.

So you're saying it's functionally impossible refute your position?

353 posted on 01/25/2006 9:05:35 AM PST by papertyger (We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 352 | View Replies]

To: papertyger

As to Scripture not being the innerrant Word of God? I believe the evidence is on my side in that regard. The arguments that you and your fellows have put forth for the validity of the Bible as divinely-inspired would not convince a rational skeptic.


354 posted on 01/25/2006 9:52:58 AM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 353 | View Replies]

To: papertyger

Of course. Yet the lack of direction remains.


355 posted on 01/25/2006 9:53:19 AM PST by newguy357
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 347 | View Replies]

To: papertyger
If God had a hand in writing the Bible, His contribution has long since been papered over by generations of editors.

Actually, the evidence, via manuscripts (Dead Sea scrolls 250 B.C.- 135 A.D., etc.), and writings of early New Testament church fathers demonstrate that the Bible has been remarkably, and accurately, preserved down through history.

The Dead Sea scrolls (100,000 pieces), and other manuscripts, confirm the accuracy of today's Old Testament.

In totality, there are about 6000 manuscripts that support today's Bible.

The New Testament can be almost totally reconstructed via historical documents that prove the New Testament's accuracy.

Your statement just is supported by the evidence.

356 posted on 01/25/2006 9:57:37 AM PST by pby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 353 | View Replies]

To: Junior
Fulfilled prophecy would not convince a rational skeptic?

What is your belief system and what external evidences exist for it...certainly nothing that comes even minutely close to the Bible?

357 posted on 01/25/2006 10:00:44 AM PST by pby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 354 | View Replies]

To: pby; Junior
whoops!!!

I meant to say:

Your statement is just not supported by the evidence.

358 posted on 01/25/2006 10:10:18 AM PST by pby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 356 | View Replies]

To: Junior

That wasn't the question.


359 posted on 01/25/2006 10:12:24 AM PST by papertyger (We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 354 | View Replies]

To: papertyger; Junior
Sorry papertyger and Junior...I shouldn't multi-task.

My post with the Dead Sea scrolls was intended for Junior.

360 posted on 01/25/2006 10:14:02 AM PST by pby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 353 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 321-340341-360361-380 ... 561-563 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson