In 'Design' vs. Darwinism, Darwin Wins Point in Rome

New York Times ^ | January 19, 2006 | IAN FISHER and CORNELIA DEAN

[JTN]

ROME, Jan. 18 - The official Vatican newspaper published an article this week labeling as "correct" the recent decision by a judge in Pennsylvania that intelligent design should not be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution.

"If the model proposed by Darwin is not considered sufficient, one should search for another," Fiorenzo Facchini, a professor of evolutionary biology at the University of Bologna, wrote in the Jan. 16-17 edition of the paper, L'Osservatore Romano.

"But it is not correct from a methodological point of view to stray from the field of science while pretending to do science," he wrote, calling intelligent design unscientific. "It only creates confusion between the scientific plane and those that are philosophical or religious."

The article was not presented as an official church position. But in the subtle and purposely ambiguous world of the Vatican, the comments seemed notable, given their strength on a delicate question much debated under the new pope, Benedict XVI.

Advocates for teaching evolution hailed the article. "He is emphasizing that there is no need to see a contradiction between Catholic teachings and evolution," said Dr. Francisco J. Ayala, professor of biology at the University of California, Irvine, and a former Dominican priest. "Good for him."

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[JTN]

"[N]ew knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. [... de nouvelles connaissances conduisent a reconnaitre dans la theorie de l'evolution plus qu'une hypothese.] It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory."

Pope John Paul II, 1996

[Gordongekko909]

I understand that the official Vatican position is essentially this: intelligent design is correct, but in a very specific way. Evolution is not incompatible with intelligent design. If evolution is how things actually work, it's because the Creator set it up that way.

[Canard]

"If evolution is how things actually work, it's because the Creator set it up that way."

Yes, and a very sensible way for them to look at things. They realise that there is no need to claim that this can be 'proven' scientifically and no reason to claim that it should be incorporated into any scientific theories or teaching. It's merely a matter of faith.

No, enough being sensible, are there still any creationists around here to watch meltdown?

[nmh]

As a Baptist, it is NOT winning ANMY points in our church. I doubt that it's "winning points" with God either to call Him a liar.

[Pyro7480]

The NY Times can't even see past it's spin. It was only a few months ago in July 2005 that the Archbishop of Vienna, Austria, Cardinal Scornborn, wrote in this very paper that "the theory of evolution as an 'unguided and and planned' process is not compatible with Catholic faith" (Inside the Vatican, October 2005). The same article that I quoted this from stated that there is a big showdown being set-up over this at the Vatican.

[nmh]

"Evolution is not incompatible with intelligent design."

There is absolutely NOTHING compatible with Evolution and Creation (Intelligent Design). The order of evolution is all wrong and they never seem to explain that "big bang". Evolution defies common sense and there is NO, I repeat NO evidence to support it. Zilcho!

For those "Christians" who claim to believe in God ... and "evolution" ... tells me they are very confused and mock God. Thankfully my God is no "ape" either.

[Cicero]

The NY Times is very urgent to point out that L'Osservatore Romano is the "official Vatican newspaper."

Sure. But this is not official Catholic doctrine or dogma. It's the opinion of a "professor of evolutionary biology at the University of Bologna."

Osservatore Romano wouldn't have printed it if it wasn't at least a reasonable argument or if it was flat out heretical. But it's nothing more than that--a reasonable argument, one man's opinion.

At least publication of the article shows that the Catholic Church is more open minded than most American Darwinists or activist judges, who REFUSE TO PERMIT any theory but Darwin to be taught.

[nmh]

"Evolution is not incompatible with intelligent design."

There is absolutely NOTHING compatible with Evolution and Creation (Intelligent Design). The order of evolution is all wrong and they never seem to explain that "big bang". Evolution defies common sense and there is NO, I repeat NO evidence to support it. Zilcho!

For those "Christians" who claim to believe in God ... and "evolution" ... tells me they are very confused and mock God. Thankfully my God is no "ape" either. Frankly speaking, I don't know why they claim to believe any of the Bible - they're already picking and choosing what they PREFER to believe.

[M203M4]

Ignorance is a mockery of God. I'll pray for you.

[Canard]

"they never seem to explain that "big bang""

Bye golly, you're right! They also don't explain gravity or why toast always lands butter side down when you drop it. Of course the theory doesn't actually deal with any of those things...

[bobdsmith]

who REFUSE TO PERMIT any theory but Darwin to be taught.

...in a biology class

[Coyoteman]

Evolution defies common sense and there is NO, I repeat NO evidence to support it. Zilcho!

Actually that's not correct. Here's some evidence now!

---

Fossil: KNM-WT 15000

Site: Nariokotome, West Turkana, Kenya (1)

Discovered By: K. Kimeu, 1984 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.6 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7, 10), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Male (based on pelvis, browridge) (1, 8, 9)

Cranial Capacity: 880 (909 as adult) cc (1)

Information: Most complete early hominid skeleton (80 bones and skull) (1, 8)

Interpretation: Hairless and dark pigmented body (based on environment, limb proportions) (7, 8, 9). Juvenile (9-12 based on 2nd molar eruption and unfused growth plates) (1, 3, 4, 7, 8). Juvenile (8 years old based on recent studies on tooth development) (27). Incapable of speech (based on narrowing of spinal canal in thoracic region) (1)

Nickname: Turkana Boy (1), Nariokotome Boy

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=38

[JTN]

"If evolution is how things actually work, it's because the Creator set it up that way."

Yes, and a very sensible way for them to look at things. They realise that there is no need to claim that this can be 'proven' scientifically and no reason to claim that it should be incorporated into any scientific theories or teaching. It's merely a matter of faith.

No, enough being sensible, are there still any creationists around here to watch meltdown?

Ditto to that.

[nmh]

"Ignorance is a mockery of God. I'll pray for you."

Cute... .

I believe what God says in the Bible. Unlike you, I am not ignorant. I have no clue on who YOU are praying to since you don't believe in what He says. You deny Him the credit and glory of what He created in seven LITERAL days. It's unwise to call Him a liar as YOU are doing. If anything you are in need of prayer and repentance.

[nmh]

Comparing gravity to the "big bang" ... there is no comparison. It's like comparing apples to oranges. I also see you can't explain the "big bang" either.

I can. My God SPOKE it ALL into existence. Gee, I wonder what made matter and what brought it to life ... and how did the complexity of life evolve - YOU can't answer ANY of that.

[nmh]

Once you get past the faulty dating methods and the endless hoaxes atheist evolutionist would like you to believe and even you would see there is NO evidence to support people evolving from apes. It's laughable on it's face. Personally I see it as sick.

[bobdsmith]

it is nice to constrast that with a chimpanzee skull, a gorilla skull and of course a human skull

[JTN]

I believe what God says in the Bible. Unlike you, I am not ignorant. I have no clue on who YOU are praying to since you don't believe in what He says. You deny Him the credit and glory of what He created in seven LITERAL days. It's unwise to call Him a liar as YOU are doing. If anything you are in need of prayer and repentance.

The idea that the seven days need not be taken literally is at least as old as St. Augustine.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Tell us briefly how anthropologists arrive at estimated ages for fossils such as the one pictured. What is considered their most accurate dating method?