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1 posted on 01/18/2006 6:54:17 AM PST by Millee
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To: Millee

Truth to a liberal (NEA etc) is like Hell is to snowballs.


2 posted on 01/18/2006 6:57:22 AM PST by xcamel (Exposing clandestine operations is treason. 13 knots make a noose.)
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To: Millee
I agree that the price tag for a quality eduction is exaggerated. Home schoolers prove that on a daily basis.
3 posted on 01/18/2006 6:57:31 AM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: Millee

Strange how the clowns who run the school systems build these fantastic temples of learning full of greenhouses, planetaria, and the like, yet the graduates can barely spell "dog" or "cat" or make change on their summer jobs at Subway.


4 posted on 01/18/2006 6:59:53 AM PST by NRA1995 (GOOOOOOO STEELERS!!!)
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To: Millee

Stosell (sp) is right! Goverment schools are a trye form of child abuse.


5 posted on 01/18/2006 7:00:26 AM PST by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, over there, We won't be back 'til it's over Over there.")
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To: Millee

Anyone have an address for Chavis? I have some old (but still good only 2 years old) computers I would gladly donate.

How about it Freepers?


6 posted on 01/18/2006 7:00:51 AM PST by Mr. K (Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help...)
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To: Millee
I saw this on ABC the other night..Great piece..I am so glad my children are all out of school but now comes the grandchildren..I stayed close to everything that went on in school when mine were there..Worked as a substitute and also volunteered was a room mother for all of my children and had a great time..
8 posted on 01/18/2006 7:02:54 AM PST by Beth528
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To: Millee

Here's a clue.

No matter how much money you give the "Public School", it is never, EVER, enough. They will always cry for more.

We educate each of our nine children at home for about $200 to $500 apiece, varying according to the complexity of their studies.

The Public School of the regional school district ("school collective" is a more accurate term) costs over $12,000 (TWELVE THOUSAND) per student, and that does not even include the bus contract, which is in the millions of dollars.


9 posted on 01/18/2006 7:04:41 AM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it!)
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To: Millee
Yesterday afternoon a friend stopped by for coffee. He mentioned he'd voted recently for more money for his local school district, mainly because a neighbor who's a teacher had approached him and said she and her colleagues weren't making anything close to what they deserved. While he was here, we looked up her salary for last year (a matter of public record in Illinois). She was making over $82,000 for teaching fifth grade.

I think he was surprised.

11 posted on 01/18/2006 7:06:13 AM PST by Mike Bates (Irish Alzheimer's victim: I only remember the grudges.)
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To: Millee
They spent so much money that when they decided to bring more white kids to the city's schools, they didn't have to resort to busing. Instead, they paid for 120 taxis. Taxis!

How much is enough?

I am sure we could give an urban school district hundreds of millions of dollars, watch it fail due to corrupt administration, and then hear the same administration (with the help of the teacher's union) complain that they didn't have enough money.

The problem isn't money. The problem is incompetence on the part of the people who are running the public education show. Schools need to get back to teaching the fundamentals and abandon all this touchy-feely garbage that they left continues to shovel.

12 posted on 01/18/2006 7:08:07 AM PST by SaveTheChief (Give the Governor a harrumph!)
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To: Millee
Excellent comments. I saw a news show about the Kansas City court case and the results back in the 90s. Truly $$$ alone will not solve the problem. Another example is Washington, DC. NONE of the politicians send their kids to the schools because they are sooo bad. DC spend the most per pupil in the country and the results are pathetic.

If I was King, I would abolish the Education Department, abolish public education, and provide school vouchers for each student.
13 posted on 01/18/2006 7:08:17 AM PST by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: Millee

John Stossel is not running our school system. The NEA is running our school system. So if there is a problem (and there is), then you know who to blame.


15 posted on 01/18/2006 7:12:06 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: Millee
There's a section in O'Rourke's "Parliament Of Whores" where he takes less than the amount of money spent (and this was the early 90s) on education and shows how it could be better spent.

He'd rent space at a posh office park, have well paid professional tutors, and have the meals served by expensive caterers. He lays out the prices for all of this and it would still be less than what we're being fleeced for now.

17 posted on 01/18/2006 7:14:00 AM PST by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: Millee
The truth is, public schools are rolling in money. If you divide the U.S. Department of Education's figure for total spending on K-12 education by the department's count of K-12 students, it works out to about $10,000 per student. Think about that! For a class of 25 kids, that's $250,000 per classroom. This doesn't include capital costs. Couldn't you do much better than government schools with $250,000? You could hire several good teachers; I doubt you'd hire many bureaucrats. Government schools, like most monopolies, squander money.

For starters, I am not going to say that schools do not waste money. That would be an indefensible position. But I will say that schools do NOT spend evenly distribute that 10K per student. What Stossel neglected to even mention was the high cost of educating the special education students. Specialists for autism run in the hundreds of thousands per state. 1-on-1 assistants for the severely disabled are expensive. Residential and day center placements for the emotionally disturbed run into the millions per states every year.

By law, these children are legally obligated to an education. If a child has autism, he cannot be educated in a traditional manner. A child born with cerebral palsy may require specialized occupational training to learn how to hold a pencil so that she can learn to write and participate.

And before someone wants to blast me about how these services are unnecessary, that is a moot point. By law these kids are entitled to an education just as my perfectly normal daughters are. Their education looks different, but is still valid.

Some kids with special training will be able to hold a simple, menial task job in the future and will in essence give back to society. Some will not. But I would hope and pray that no one here sitting in the comfort of their home or office would point fingers at another's child and say "YOU do not deserve to be educated. Go home and watch TV." Our society is not yet that hardened.

So, can any of us educate our own children for 10k a year? Sure we can, but how about those Freepers with children with severe disabilities? 10K would not cover a month's worth of educational expenses.

Stossel made a right ass of himself by ignoring this fact and comparing our kids one-on-one to Belgian children.

And, in fairness, some administrators made even bigger asses of themselves by insisting the sky is the limit in terms of money. I was disgusted by their greed. They are part of the problem as are the unions.

18 posted on 01/18/2006 7:14:35 AM PST by SoftballMominVA
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To: Millee

My wife is a public school teacher.

One her complaints is that the school where she teaches gets new computers for the kids every two years, or so. No one uses the computers. They sit in a room with covers over them, and every time the state sends the new computers, the custodians have to find room for them so they, too, can sit is a room with covers over them.


20 posted on 01/18/2006 7:15:00 AM PST by Skooz (Property taxes are immoral)
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To: Millee
My kid attends a Catholic School in a suburb of Cleveland. The price to educate a elementary student stands at about $4000.00 annually.

What in God's name are the public systems doing with the other $6K?
21 posted on 01/18/2006 7:15:03 AM PST by mr_hammer (They have eyes, but do not see . . .)
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To: Millee

"Stossel is an idiot..."




If they identify Stossel as an "idiot" then imagine what they'll do to your kid!


22 posted on 01/18/2006 7:16:35 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: Millee
I watched the show, I thought it was very good. To me, he did not accuse anyone of anything but did point out some real points that all parents and tax payers should look at.

Such as much of the tax paid goes to items such as administrators salaries, administration buildings and the like. It does not make it directly into the classroom.

Another item pointed out was the teachers union (this was New York City) made it practically impossible to fire teachers when they were not performing to desired levels.

He let the actual area (state/city/school district) be know and didn't say generically this or that. He also profiled some private schools in the US and in Europe (Belgium, I think) and provided insight into how they work and perform (Administrators and teachers).

I've watched his shows over the years and think he does put a lot of time and research into them to put out the most and best information for viewers to think about.

This show was very interesting and timely considering the predicament were in in Texas. The problems pointed out in the show apply to Texas, maybe not all but some most definetly. Courts decreeing "fix it by June '06"; Legislature trying to appease their money backers during regular and Special Sessions; and the Governor nor forcefully leading the Legislature to the table to solve the problem.
23 posted on 01/18/2006 7:19:25 AM PST by K-oneTexas (I'm not a judge and there ain't enough of me to be a jury. (Zell Miller, A National Party No More))
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To: Millee
Education in this country, both at the secondary and post-secondary levels is undergoing a massive renovation. We're just on the forefront of it. But IMO in 20 years the "views" on college educations will be much different and most people will not be attending traditional public schools as they are now in existence.

At some point what people actually know is going to trump some checked box on a resume. That's already beginning to occur. The technological field actually leads in this area, but business and other areas are soon to follow. Engineering, medical, and other sciences will still require traditional educational outlets, but much if not most or nearly all of those curriculae actually are relevant to the final outcome.

In undergraduate school, one can get a business degree with as few as 10 (or 40 or so) courses actually having any direct meaning or purpose to one's professional aspirations. Reading, writing, and math can be self taught and more and more people are doing just that due to the incredibly low, and faltering, standards of the public schools. More and more people are spending money on tutoring or the like as well.

Most of the classes taken in undergraduate school for non-technical majors are just fluff BS. Most of it is spun so liberally that it's nauseating.

Once the ridiculous structure we have that equates a degree with knowledge, intelligence, or expertise is "adjusted," more room for people that don't have the credentials but have the common sense and knowledge will open up giving way to a new framework within this realm. I.e., just like techies can get "certifications" or other qualifications via testing, IMO so too will others be able to do the same.

Also, not saying it's gonna be any less expensive to pursue necessarily, but the general framework will have to change.

24 posted on 01/18/2006 7:22:36 AM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Millee
The biggest problem right now with public schools--and I think even most teachers admit this sheepishly--is the fact the administrative cost of public schools is getting way out of hand!

Find ways to cut that administrative cost and direct more money specifically to classrooms and textbooks and I'll almost guarantee public schools will get better over time.

26 posted on 01/18/2006 7:23:48 AM PST by RayChuang88
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To: Millee
Tenure is one of the most harmful ingredients in public education.

A good teacher does not need tenure.
27 posted on 01/18/2006 7:28:39 AM PST by alisasny (<h3>"Watching Ted Kennedy is a nonintellectual feast."</h3>)
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