Posted on 01/10/2006 1:49:22 AM PST by nickcarraway
SUSHI DAS discovers what men think about feminism.
'FEMINISM has turned women into selfish, spoiled, spiteful, powerless victims," shrieked the email. "Men are talking, can't you hear it? Marriage rates are down, birthrates are down, men are using women for their pleasure and then leaving them."
If it was only one of a handful of emails I received, I might not have given it much thought. But there were many more. "I do not think it's men or boys that need reforming. I think women are the main instigators of hate against one half of the population," wrote another man.
Then there was this: "I have healthy relationships with women and always have protected sex to avoid entrapment … why should I risk losing everything I own and having my children taken away from me?"
And this: "The modern guy is not looking for the 'services' past generations did, they often just want a nice person to share their life with, rather than someone who is going to be climbing corporate ladders, getting pregnant when she chooses and then assuming complete control of a child's life. That is not to say they are not supportive of women's careers and goals."
The emails were a response to a challenge I posed to men on this page a couple of weeks ago. Specifically, I asked them to engage in debates relating to "feminist issues" and show they understood that equality, women's rights, the work/life imbalance, the declining birthrate, sexual politics and relationships generally are important to everybody, not just women.
I received, a tsunami of emails. Many were considered arguments. A significant number were the bitter outpourings of men hurt by women. Some elucidated the frustrations of men who couldn't find Ms Right. Sadly, many were simply vitriolic or abusive.
In the hundreds of emails, anger appeared to be the underlying emotion because the writers believed the pendulum had swung too far in favour of women. There were some common threads: men were angry that women's needs took priority over theirs; they felt men constituted the majority of the unemployed, the homeless, the victims of industrial accidents and suicides, that men's health received less funding than women's, and that boys' education was poor. In relationships, they felt some women were "not very nice to men" and were often too selfish to consider their needs. These concerns are real,
but how many can really be blamed on feminism?
Essentially, men raised three broad concerns over why they did not engage in the debate on feminist issues. First, they were scared of being howled down by aggressive feminists who dismissed their views. Second, they felt they were victims too, but women didn't listen to them. Third, they were confused about what women really wanted and what constituted appropriate behaviour.
On the first issue, I agree, some women are dismissive of men's views simply because they are men. Men who speak out, wrote one man, are "smashed upon the rocks of indignation" and this made it "a very, very scary debate to engage with". Another said: "Opting out of an argument in which we cannot hope to be allowed an equal voice let alone a fair outcome is a perfectly rational response."
My response? Get over it. If you're a man and you have an opinion, speak out. Put your case. It will stand or fall on its merit. Stop being scared. There are plenty of women willing to listen. And if you get howled down, get up and say it again. That's how women got their voices heard in the 1970s.
On the issue of men as victims, some argued women too are violent, that men have few rights on abortion, that female teachers get off more lightly when they sexually abuse male students, that men are vilified as pedophiles, that affirmative action is discriminatory, that women frequently win the custody battle. Clearly these concerns require attention. Perhaps it is governments that are not listening to men, rather than women.
Finally, some men were unsure of their role in society. This is complex, and women must recognise this. But men should also let common decency be their guide to appropriate behaviour. Being a decent human being shouldn't be that hard.
Equality is a prerequisite for development. When the shouting from our respective corners is over, perhaps resentment from both sides will melt.
Many emails I received were a cry from the heart from men. But it's not just about women listening to their words, it's about men taking action to improve their own lives. This means speaking out, whatever the consequences — engaging in the debate on equality or feminism or whatever it is called these days.
With that in mind, I'll leave the last words to a man: "Damned if we do, damned if we don't. We need to speak though. We do not want our daughters growing up stunted by arguments or situations that could have been campaigned away. Equally, our sons require education. But how do we do this with integrity? That's the challenge for all involved."
I'm afraid you're going to find that "final authority" business might be a deal breaker to most women these days. Good luck on your search.
and women want to be scratched behind the ears (neck rub) and pampered.
Would you consider it Godly to make a decision based solely on the input of your wife?
And I was very careful to point out that these were straight from the accepted stereotypes. (we all know that there are exceptions)
Actually, I learned a lot from you comments. I'd somehow never thought of engineers that way. I didn't think about it until later, but most of the people in my social circle define themselves more by their hobbies than their professions. The vast majority of my friends, male and female are mountain bikers. Obsessive mountain bikers at that.
Not to a Christian women. And since I wont even entertain the idea of dating a non Christian that's OK.
Good luck on your search.
Thanks
However, I wouldn't have kids based on the thoughts of being a grandparent. There are so many reasons why someone may not be a grandparent, or may not be able to be around their grandchildren.
I would base being a parent on wanting to raise the kids in the here in now.
I wouldn't want men to nix marrying a good woman because they are 35-40 years old, especially when the man is 35-40 years old.
Even if someone can't physically have a child in the 40s, they could also adopt a child.
Not solely. But I would if it was mainly on her input. My wife had a remarkable discernment (that is, she understood people and their motivations far far better than I do) So I knew if she 'felt' someway about someone she was usually right. In fact I can't think of one time when she was wrong (when she was healthy that is)
Hate to tell ya John O, but men have a shelf life too.
Good luck finding a woman between 28 and 32. At that age I wouldn't have considered a man of 45. Way, way too old.
Why not? Based on what scripture?
Why on earth would a never before married 28 to 32 year old woman want a previously married 45 year old man?
You are unusual.
I married a 25 year old when I was 43.
They are not hard to find.
She's more typical than your bride who married a man old enough to be her father. Literally.
Were you previously married and she never married?
Me too. I stuck with a 5 year rule, and I usually got along best with men within 2 years of my age. My husband is a year older. We laugh about the same TV shows we loved as a kid, and we both like listening to music from when we were in college. We both voted for Reagan on our first election.
My husband had a friend who dated a girl that was about 10 years younger than us. Neither of us could stand her. She was a vegetarian who was going to breast feed her children until they were 5 years old. I was going through miscarriages when we knew her, and she was so holier than thou about her beliefs. She just didn't have any real world experience. She also ended up breaking our friends heart, and he hasn't had a girlfriend in the past 10 years.
I also can't imagine my 20 something year old nieces going out with someone my husband's age. They think we're old fuddy duddies.
Why would she iron your tee shirts? Why not just hang them up out of the dryer?
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