[Strategerist]

When I leave things out in the sun, they tend to deteriorate, not evolve into something more complex.

Take a look at a pic the amorphous blob of disorganized clouds that Hurricane Katrina formed from, and then look at Katrina at Cat 5 - organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye. That was accomplished through solar energy, with no intelligent designer at all.

[Carry_Okie]

When are people ever going to stop pretending that reality necessarily conforms to scientific models? They have their uses within limits, but such are defined by the applications.

It gets tiring.

[stacytec]

Agreed, applying thermodynamics to agrue the case for or against evolution is the biggest straw man a person can make. Mr. Sewell needs to take a break from the algebra and visit a book on logic.

[editor-surveyor]

"That was accomplished through solar energy, with no intelligent designer at all."

Wrong! Since all the evidence points to complexity more than 40 orders of magnitude beyond what statistically can be expected to occur within a couple of billion years, your assertion that it was done without a creator is radical speculation on a level far above what is attributable to the average 'Area 51' freak.

It was magnanamous of you to offer your criticism of Prof. Sewell's math, since he has done only a mere two PhD's in math.

[tallhappy]

When I leave things out in the sun, they tend to deteriorate, not evolve into something more complex.

Leave some salt or sugar water out in the sun. You'll end up with crystals which are more complex than their structure in solution.

...look at Katrina at Cat 5 - organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye. That was accomplished through solar energy, ...

Yes.

with no intelligent designer at all.

This last part is a non-sequitar. How can you know there was "no intelligent designer at all."

[4Liberty]

As an atheist with no (zero) interest in religion, I support what you're saying.

But it's probably wisest to simply admit to religiously inclined people that the "First Cause" of everything can't be known, since scientific knowledge is always improving and is an approximation (more knowledge is always possible).

That should satisfy the smart theists - and, - it's accurate.

Intelligent design is an unfortunate development - since we really don't KNOW if things are "complex".... or not. "Complex, " -- compared to WhAt? Things could be very simple, or very complex basically. We just don't know. They are what they are. We know things are being pushed around into 'clumps' that LOOK complex, but that's about it. What's pushing them? Who knows? Scientists will NEVER know the final answer to that question, since they'll always want to push it back a Step FURTHER. That's why I'm an atheist. I know when to say, "Gee, I don't KNOW... hmm."

It's best to leave this intelligent design stuff alone. It's a non-starter for empirical purposes.

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

Take a look at a pic the amorphous blob of disorganized clouds that Hurricane Katrina formed from, and then look at Katrina at Cat 5 - organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye. That was accomplished through solar energy, with no intelligent designer at all.

Oh really? Who then wrote the "rules" that allow an "amorphous blob of disorganized clouds" to form into "organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye". Not once but thirty some times in a row. Solar energy, like any other form of energy is chaos, the intersection of pure energy to create an organized system requires physical rules (gas laws, the Coriolis effect, &c.) to impose order. It is not energy alone that causes a hurricane, nor is it random chance happening.

Merely saying that this involved no outside intelligence begs the question of how the "natural laws" that allow hurricanes to form came to be? It's not likely to be random chance after the season just passed.

Regards,
GtG

[jbloedow]

Take a look at a pic the amorphous blob of disorganized clouds that Hurricane Katrina formed from...

Take a look at pictures of the Gulf Coast after Katrina was done (and diffused) and get back to me on your point about entropy. And how this might pertain to evolution.

[Wolfie]

Take a look at a pic the amorphous blob of disorganized clouds that Hurricane Katrina formed from, and then look at Katrina at Cat 5 - organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye. That was accomplished through solar energy, with no intelligent designer at all.

Except for the obvious fact that God was punishing the gays and fornicators in New Orleans.

[Elsie]

Take a look at a pic the amorphous blob of disorganized clouds that Hurricane Katrina formed from, and then look at Katrina at Cat 5 - organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye. That was accomplished through solar energy, with no intelligent designer at all.

---

Oh?

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Ephesians 2
1. As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
2. in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

[Free Baptist]

You only want to believe that Katrina had no intelligent designer. Are you trying to prove that hurricanes defy the laws of thermodynamics? What do they leave in their wake? Why don't they become moons of the earth.

[Nevermore]

That was accomplished through solar energy, with no intelligent designer at all.

Sure. Of course. All kinds of things happen with perfect regularity and no driving force.
Ever drive down an expressway where there's a clearly posted 55 mph "speed limit" but no regular enforcement?

Lots of people have an amazing faith in Laws of Nature, alone, and I cannot understand why. They are confident that matter and complex species just mutate themselves into existence. Yet they would not consider themselves "religious" people. I often wonder what is the color of the sky in their world.

[norton]

"organized Spiral Bands, symmetrical, with a perfectly round and clear eye. That was accomplished through solar energy..."

Not unless my toilet is also solar powered.
The 'round and clear etc,' part was accomplished by the earth spinning on an axis; the moisture was due to solar energy.