Posted on 12/20/2005 3:15:35 AM PST by E Rocc
Bill Would Allow Arrests For No Reason In Public Place
Citizens Would Also Have To Show ID
UPDATED: 7:22 pm EST December 19, 2005
CLEVELAND -- A bill on Gov. Bob Taft's desk right now is drawing a lot of criticism, NewsChannel5 reported.
One state representative said it resembles Gestapo-style tactics of government, and there could be changes coming on the streets of Ohio's small towns and big cities.
The Ohio Patriot Act has made it to the Taft's desk, and with the stroke of a pen, it would most likely become the toughest terrorism bill in the country. The lengthy piece of legislation would let police arrest people in public places who will not give their names, address and birth dates, even if they are not doing anything wrong.
WEWS reported it would also pave the way for everyone entering critical transportation sites such as, train stations, airports and bus stations to show ID.
"It brings us frighteningly close to a show me your papers society," said Carrie Davis of the ACLU, which opposes the Ohio Patriot Act.
There are many others who oppose the bill as well.
"The variety of people who opposed to this is not just a group of the usual suspects. We have people far right to the left opposing the bill who think it is a bad idea," said Al McGinty, NewsChannel5’s terrorism expert.
McGinty said he isn't sure the law would do what it's intended to do.
"I think anything we do to enhance security and give power to protect the public to police officers is a good idea," he said. "It is a good law in the wrong direction."
Gov. Bob Taft will make the ultimate decision on whether to sign the bill.
WEWS was told that Taft is expected to sign the bill into law, but legal experts expect that it will be challenged in courts.
bump
Or a chip on our foreheads. I'm all for law and order but this goes a little too far.
A constant source of amazement, amusement (and nightmares) for me also.
metesky wrote:
"You know darn well that when they come to break down your door, it's not real police that come, it's them secret ninja cops."
---It's ok i'm jus confused, i'm running out of doors and they come in white suits, i wear one too, the cells are nice and warm, padded too. I wish they would find other doors to bust down ;) hehehe
Ok a slight understatement. :)
Hopefully it gets challenged and struck down as it should.
This is one of the reasons, I do not subscribe blindly to the face value of the Patriot Act as written.
Any sane citizen will never give this broad of a power to the Government, in the name of fighting terrorism.
BTW a provision to restrict US citizens the right to purchase fire arms, was also inserted in the Bill of Goods, courtesy of your friendly Patriot Act!
Never thrust your Government under ANY circumstances!...Period!
No, I am not a Libertarian, just a very skeptical and pragmatical Joe Sixpack.
You don't have to be a libertarian to despise fascist laws and those who pass them.
" The day will come when FReepers will be considered "terrorists".
SOME FReepers may be considered terrorists. There are many FReepers who seem to be fond of every piece of police state legislation that comes along.
"And if you are taking a walk, and don't have ID on you, are you screwed?"
Yes, the local Homeland Security Freedom Squad will haul you off to be interrogated.
Tell him your name is George Mason, and your address is 10709 Gunston Road, Mason Neck, Virginia, 22079. Tell `em your serial number is A-7713. If enough people do this, maybe they'll get the point.
Ping to 71.
How about this,,,going forward, whether or not you take a walk or have ID, you will be screwed.
The experiment failed. The republic is moribund. Not from without, but from within.
Hard as it is to admit, there are some folks on this site, and not just a few, who are at least as scary as the liberals.
Okay Danmar, then you're on the record saying that you'd rather have a terrorist gain access to public transportation than show your driver's license. Thanks.
You just proved Dan's point exactly, thanks
I appreciate the ping, and your sentiment. But no, I'm not going along with the "libertarian" hysteria rife in this Thread.
This creep had NO PROBLEM with showing a driver's license.
AND now for my point... my perspective on this is VERY different from those on most on this thread. I have not a problem, given the experiences I've encountered with this issue, in law enforcement attempting to get to the matter of CORRUPTION.
Now, for the even better part.. after receiving subpoenas to appear in court -- it seems the LA System has gotten FINALLY a handle on the fact that the guy using my friend's identity, needs to be apprehended on MULTIPLE CHARGES. I say GOOD!
And now for the last kick-boom... the creep criminal.. in NO way physically resembles my friend. "ANTI-Profiling" measures PROTECTED this creep.
Imagine being law enforcement. You arrest a guy for criminal behaviors.. he shows his DL. His DL picture doesn't look like him. The creep laughs in your face and walks out into the "community" encouraged to commit more crimes and because Law Enforcement is HINDERED AND HAMPERED from doing what they need to do.
Bottom line is.. libertarians can just be ridiculous, at times.
You are a citizen. You have certain rights. You also have certain responsibilities. If showing your DL when asked is so much trouble for you, go to Costa Rica. Move there. Live free.
Problem is, IMHO, some people mistake being a wanton jerk with being "free" to do whatever they want.
America is a long ways from being "over", and I know this is disappointing to some in various political aisles.
Are there instances of police harassment. Of course. But are there millions more cases of law enforcement actually apprehending criminals. Duh, YES.
Some people, IMHO, have OBE in thinking they are living inside some "Demolition Man" world, rather than the reality they ACTUALLY live in; and posture the thinking that if ONE innocent person is harmed by a law, then the law should be tossed! Acting like caveat emperors. It's really pathetic, you'gist?
In John Galt's world, such a creep would have had NO due process, but taken down immediately by physical force. Carry Galt's world to it's logical extension, beyond that which Ayn Rand wrote, and you get to see a world with laws be re-created.
Assuredly, her point was not that laws were bad -- the point of her book was that systems can be overweighted when people live selfishly and blindly.
The trick to halting and preventing such a dulled-system, is to be active and awake and aware in the here and now. We have multiple "problems" in our system now: Identity theft, terrorists, "anti-profiling measures" ad nauseum. If providing a DL to law enforcement which asks (and yes, none of us relishes doing that) means that a system can be righted NOW before it arrives at the dulled system detailed by Rand and pre-Galtian times, then it is a good thing.
IMHO and IME, of course.
Measures such as the Patriot Act are doing exactly this -- weeding out and cleaning up the system.
But some people wanna revolution.... piffle. Wah! They wanna see American fall to its knees so they can have a shot at being "big fishies" in a little pond in their "devastated" communities.
Solid systems keel over when people live purely by their own ego-driven wishes and demands. Living in a civilization and community often requires that we contribute "as members in good standing" to the good of the city, state, nation.
Amazing to me. We've got people doing noble sacrifice in LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MILITARY giving their all to keep their fellow citizen safe from harm, and then contrast this with PEOPLE HYSTERICAL OVER SHOWING A DRIVER'S LICENSE.
I do wish people could keep their pet peeves and personal egos out of this matter. But they can't and won't and don't.
And THESE that I've just named are the reasons a system gets DULLLED. All those people in the pre-Galt world were all about THEIR WANTS, THEIR PERSONAL EGOS.
Tell him your name is George Mason, and your address is 10709 Gunston Road, Mason Neck, Virginia, 22079. Tell `em your serial number is A-7713. If enough people do this, maybe they'll get the point.There's nowhere near enough history taught in the schools lately to use this. You'd get a blank look.
The day Lennon was shot, I was telling my girlfriend about my reactions to the Reagan shooting. She asked why Reagan was shot and was amazed when I told her. This is a college graduate we're talking about.
Sometimes I swear Santayana spoke in vain.
-Eric
I meant the anniversary of course :o
-Eric
Don't do that to a federal officer: you will have committed a Martha Stewart-style felony of lying to a federal officer.
If Ohio also has a broad law making it a felony to lie to a state officer, then it would not be wise to make such a false representation in Ohio either. The prescribed penalty might well be more than the misdemeanour-level offense discussed in the article.
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