McCain Wins One for the Terrorists!

Canada Free Press ^ | December 17, 2005 | J.B. Williams

[TomGuy]

We had a policy at the turn of the last century to use any means necessary to subdue the Moros in the Phillipines. What was used? The threat of being buried in pigskins and the use of bullets dipped in pig fat.

Many 'debunk' those stories as being not true. With so much history-rewriting, it is difficult to know, unless one is an historian.

History (those parts that haven't undergone PC revision) tells of the muslim invasion of Europe and Eurasia, especially from around 700 AD to 1400 AD.

The first 'foreign' conflict of the new United States of America was with the Barbary Pirates (who were of muslim ethnicity). The US Navy was created and commissioned to fight their piracy.

Those who seem to work hardest at debunking such stories seem to think they are, somehow, immune from the truths of history.

Some of the stories of how Russians have dealt with the muslim invasion over the centuries are harrowing. We can bet the debunkers are rewriting as rapidly as possible.

Before they finish their rewriting, however, do a Google and discover how Vlad, The Impaler, got his label/name. But also read up on why he did what he did to get that label.

[G Larry]

Not too overly simplistic....

Please explain how we "defend" ourselves from terrorists?

There is NO FRONT LINE!
They sneak in and blow things up.

As for your irrelavent "torture" reference, that has been "illegal" for some time, and is not the subject of McCain's stupid, PC ammendment.
This ammendment makes it impossible to get "meaningful" information from captives.
ANY psychological interrogation techniques WILL be called "degrading" by some commie ACUL lawyer.

It does simplify battlefield management though.
With no upside to taking prisoners, you just kill them all.
How's that for "moral"?
As for you position that War is only moral when you're on defense, that's pretty ignorant!

[gondramB]

"No we won't because no matter what we do someone, somewhere, will call it evil."

Everything you said is true and not just overseas... we have, within our own population an element that will always criticize our country and there are even more of them overseas.

But, both here and there are people in the middle - people who actually evaluate and judge based on standards. The presence of wackos that always hate us does not eliminate the others.

[gondramB]

"As for you position that War is only moral when you're on defense, that's pretty ignorant!"

I'm sorry that we disagree about that.

BTW, my idea of "defense" includes preemptive action in the event of an imminent attack and it also includes defending allies who are attacked.

[G Larry]

"my idea of "defense" includes preemptive action in the event of an imminent attack..."

Great!
And how in the hell do we find out about an "immenent attack", without benefit of interogation?

[samtheman]

Traitor.

[CROSSHIGHWAYMAN]

McCain is sure not to get out of the primaries now. I can just see the commercials. Two terrorists watching the announcement of McCain's new law, turn to each other and give high fives and say "Thank you Senator McCain"

This law ia a feel-good sham.

If McCain's family was threatened or kidnapped, he would be first in line with jumper cables and a battery if they caught a suspect!!

[JOE43270]

You don't need to be corrected. McCain in my mind is he Manchurian Canidate. Not from the new movie though the one made back in the fifties. There are and have been other POWS in the House and Senate that have never acted like McCain. The seeds that were planted in his mind are sprouting well and I don't think he even knows what's going on. Don't think I'm backing up on what I just said for a second, I am U. S. Air Force and McCain is U. S. Navy. I never went through anything near to what he did and I respect him and I will still salute him with respect. I don't like him being in the Senate and I don't want him to be President of the United States. The things he does are not necessarily for the people that elected him, the things he does are his own agenda because of the things that are planted in his mind and the horrible things that were done to him. Also the comments about President Bush I don't like. I feel the President Bush handles Clinton, the First Bush, and McCain very well. He gives and takes with all of those three and finds other ways if he needs to accomplish the mission. In my heart and mind he is an excellent Commander in Chief and leader of all our people in uniform.

[gondramB]

"Great!
And how in the hell do we find out about an "immenent attack", without benefit of interogation?"

I think your question implies that we should torture suspects just in case they know about an imminent attack. Maybe I'm reading that wrong...

There are really very few circumstance under which I would torture somebody (or support torture) consistent with my ideals as a Christian American.

I would need to be so certain that the person had information that if gotten very quickly would save innocent lives that I would be willing to put myself at risk by doing something I knew was illegal.

That would keep torture very, very rare, as it should be.

[gondramB]

"If McCain's family was threatened or kidnapped, he would be first in line with jumper cables and a battery if they caught a suspect!!"

That's why we don't put somebody with personal involvement in charge of an interrogation - it's why it is often police policy to use a takedown leader after a police chase when the suspect is ready to surrender- the guy who has been leading the chase is too likely to do something he should not do.

That doesn't make him the cop doing the chasing or the guy whose family is kidnapped into a bad person Anger and a desire to stop evildoers is natural... even Jesus got angry and overturned the tables of the money changers.

But it does show we have institutional limits - because sometimes we want and need to overcome our natural impulses.

[gondramB]

"You don't need to be corrected. McCain in my mind is he Manchurian Canidate. Not from the new movie though the one made back in the fifties. There are and have been other POWS in the House and Senate that have never acted like McCain"

I have all kinds of problems with McCain. Even if he changed all his positions that piss me off, he is still just too unstable to President. Sometimes I think he is one incident away from being the next Dean.

But, I don't think it is a big stretch for someone who has been tortured to not want it done to someone else.

[G Larry]

I wrote "interogation" NOT "torture"!

My issue is with your definition of torture.

Psych warfare doesn't necessarily involve physical pain.

It induces fear and discomfort and IT IS EFFECTIVE!

The idea that we need to be sure that the captive has information first, is ridiculous!
You don't know what you don't know.

"Waterboarding" has produced GREAT results and saved lives!
Do you have a problem with that?

[Dustbunny]

McCain Wins One for the Terrorists!

Another useless bill proposed by John McLame and passed because of John McLame. When is it ever going to end?

[gondramB]

""Waterboarding" has produced GREAT results and saved lives!
Do you have a problem with that?"

Other than that I try not to lie, I don't have an ethical problem with threatening a prisoner ion a way that would create fear and discomfort if we are sure that they are a terrorist.

I guess everybody is gonna think I'm crazy but I'd like to try waterboarding. I read that the average CIA trainee last 15 seconds and that the record is less than 2 minutes. I'd like to try and see if I could do 30 seconds.

[kjo]

I agree one million percent. If the GOP nominates that ego maniac McCain I'm voting Libertarian.

[Spottys Spurs]

You nailed it, as far as I am concerned! I guess our only option is to take NO prisoners! Dead terrorists cannot fight again. Works for me!

[JOE43270]

"But, I don't think it is a big stretch for someone who has been tortured to not want it done to someone else."

I agree with you on that, we're on the same page. The problem I see is that with him using his feelings about torture that he is fully entitled to because he lived through it is that he should be in office doing things like this torture legislation because the bad guys don't care what they do to our people that become prisioners. I didn't like it when it was done to McCain, Airman Sam Johnson, and Airman Paul Kari. Those two were in those prisons like McCain and many others. Those are the ones I'm protecting because they and many others are doing things for us that will keep us from having it happen to us. God Bless them ALL.

[G Larry]

Glad you agree.......

Now, with McCain's idiotic ammendment, that's illegal!

Or, will be the minute the ACLU gets a sample case.

[headstamp]

"We've sent a message to the world that the United States is not like the terrorists," Senator McCain said

Yes, like it was really necessary to illustrate the difference with this new law. I mean after all, the US might be thought of as a terrorist state, the greatest country on the planet that people risk their lives constantly to get to, right Johnnie?

Jackass, media whore.

[Smokin' Joe]

2. We lose the practical advantage of being able to torture

Yes, and no. While we cannot officially condone or participate in torture, we can always 'extradite' the person(s) in question and let our allies do the information extraction for us, using whatever means they deem necessary to have a fruitful outcome.

We get the information and our hands stay clean. Plausible deniability.

Chances are very good that the bearers of the most perishable intelligence will be aprehended closest to the war zone, and can be handed over to the 'local authorities' for 'processing' in an expedient fashion.

We follow the letter of the law, someone else provides the interrogation facilities and the personnel who will be well versed in the local language and customs. After a while, people will sing like canaries to avoid being turned over for processing.

It ain't a pretty picture, but it is the American way.