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Spy Vs. Spy: The Morality of "Munich"
rogerebert.com ^ | December 14, 2005 | Jim Emerson

Posted on 12/16/2005 11:02:47 AM PST by pcottraux

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I'm thinking "Munich" is becoming an issue people are becoming angry about. Is it okay if the movie does not portray a moral absolute on the Israel/Palestine situation? To what extent does the movie do that? How exactly will the situation be portrayed?

We'll know when it comes out.

1 posted on 12/16/2005 11:02:49 AM PST by pcottraux
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To: pcottraux

"Exodus" was a terrific movie. Sound track awesome. Even though there was artistic differences between Paul Newman and the director, Newman's performance was outstanding. When Spielberg glorifes the pali terrorists, I don't see how "Munich" will go anywere. Besides, Spielberg is totally H'jerk and needs a hit in the worst way.


2 posted on 12/16/2005 11:07:38 AM PST by lilylangtree
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To: lilylangtree

But is that what Spielberg's doing, "glorifying" terrorists? The author says here that there is a chilling scene in the movie where one of the Palestinian group's leaders makes a frightening and evil-sounding speech on how their goals are to eliminate Israel.


3 posted on 12/16/2005 11:11:21 AM PST by pcottraux (It's pronounced "P. Coe-troe.")
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To: pcottraux

"It's easy (and natural and maybe even necessary, for some) to demonize the enemy, especially when he wants to wipe you and yours from the face of the Earth."

Yes, that sounds easy. A slam dunk in fact.


4 posted on 12/16/2005 11:12:34 AM PST by Shermy
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To: pcottraux

Wonder if there'll be a Yasser araRATfink character? It's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that ole araRAT helped murder the Israeli athletes.


5 posted on 12/16/2005 11:14:36 AM PST by lilylangtree
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To: Shermy

Jim Emerson is a very liberal intellectualist who writes on politics around and within the movie industry. His articles are long, complex, and filled with intelligent-sounding arguments. I would like to see a point-by-point, sentence-by-sentence counter-point refuting an article of his, but it would be a massive undertaking.


6 posted on 12/16/2005 11:16:49 AM PST by pcottraux (It's pronounced "P. Coe-troe.")
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To: Shermy

Nobody ever seems to object to demonizing the Nazis. Yet when other groups express their desire to complete their work, we're not supposed to demonize them.

Me not understand.


7 posted on 12/16/2005 11:17:57 AM PST by Restorer (Islamists want to die. We want to kill them.)
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To: pcottraux
this era of Fox News feel-casting...moral equivalence (the first refuge of the con-artist)

FOX-bashing--the first refuge of the liberally biased.

8 posted on 12/16/2005 11:20:30 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (An agnostic who never, ever says "Happy Holidays")
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To: lilylangtree
Spielberg is totally H'jerk and needs a hit in the worst way.

He does? Why, having one of the biggest hits of the year already this year putting his career on the edge?

Spielberg's track record is the best in Hollywood. He could make any number of "bombs" and still be the most artistically liberated director alive, able to do whatever he likes.

Having said that, all I've heard about this movie tells me it's a big snore. I won't be seeing it.

9 posted on 12/16/2005 11:23:11 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (An agnostic who never, ever says "Happy Holidays")
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To: lilylangtree

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Still, I haven't seen the movie yet like I said, but from my readings, I gather that the point isn't "Palestinians are good" and "Israel is bad," but rather, the central focus is that when you're a secret agent and you're assigned to kill or assassinate, it's just simply not an easy thing to do. No matter how awful what the person you're targeting has done, it's still hard to take them out in a secretive way.


10 posted on 12/16/2005 11:23:15 AM PST by pcottraux (It's pronounced "P. Coe-troe.")
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To: pcottraux
Thanks for that info, I thought this guy was an Ebert fan posting a comment, or something. The trick with this kind of article is to dip in here and there and look at sentences and paragraphs on their own. And it is filled with the moral equivalence he, of course, has to head off before he begins.

You can always tell one of these guys, they always have a line like "...people who think Israel should be exempt from history."

11 posted on 12/16/2005 11:24:53 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (An agnostic who never, ever says "Happy Holidays")
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To: Restorer
I maintain that the Nazis are demonized for several reasons:

They attacked Stalin and threatened the existence of Marxism
They were Socialists (National Socialists) but they lost. No one likes a loser.

The Left does not like the Jews. Never has.
The Left lies about everything. Always has.

If you ask a Leftist why the Nazis were bad, they won't give you the honest answers (listed above). Instead they will say "The Holocaust". But I don't think that truly counts for much among the Left. It's just a convenient cover.

So, the Nazis are demonized because they endangered Marxism and Socialism.
If someone comes along and seeks to renew the Holocaust, there is, for a Leftist, not much too complain about.

12 posted on 12/16/2005 11:27:17 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Restorer

I'm too obtuse.

The sentence is ridiculous. One need not "demonize" an opponent who want to wipe you out. The comment essentially demonizes the object of the demons for believing the demons are demons. Or something like that. :)


13 posted on 12/16/2005 11:28:24 AM PST by Shermy
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To: Shermy

Ebert put it thrid on his top ten list just behind number 1 Crash and number 2 Syraina. Brokeback come in 5 on his list and King Kong made the top ten.......


14 posted on 12/16/2005 11:32:22 AM PST by Paul8148
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To: pcottraux; lilylangtree; Shermy; Grampa Dave; PhilDragoo; SierraWasp
That second paragraph is just flat-out wrong (and the ideology Brooks describes is even dramatized in a memorable conversation between the leader of the Israeli team and a member of the PLO).

Never friggin' happened in the real story. I read "Vengeance" (a great book), and Schpielberg's fiction merely tries to humanize the Pali butchers.

15 posted on 12/16/2005 11:33:56 AM PST by BOBTHENAILER (One by one, in small groups or in whole armies, we don't care how we do it, but we're gonna getcha)
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To: pcottraux

I love movies about historical events. I would like to see this, but if it becomes a platform for making excuses for what these terrorist scum did, I'll ask for my money back.


16 posted on 12/16/2005 11:35:45 AM PST by conservativebabe
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To: pcottraux
If Uris could not get "Exodus" funded in an atmosphere that still reeks of "Durban" (and where is the movie about all that, Steve?) then Spielberg should not be green-lighted for "Munich."

This leaves me confused. EXODUS was made into a film, and a very successful one if I remember correctly. It even showed the bombing of the King David Hotel. What's the reference to 'Durban'?

17 posted on 12/16/2005 11:38:30 AM PST by Rummyfan
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To: Shermy

I guess we are supposed to spend so much energy agonizing over the moral dilemmas involved with defending ourselves against those who want to kill us that we won't be able to defend ourselves effectively. Or something like that.


18 posted on 12/16/2005 11:43:21 AM PST by Restorer (Islamists want to die. We want to kill them.)
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To: Darkwolf377
He could make any number of "bombs" and still be the most artistically liberated director alive, able to do whatever he likes.

Major competition for him in this area from Mel Gibson and Peter Jackson.

19 posted on 12/16/2005 11:44:10 AM PST by Restorer (Islamists want to die. We want to kill them.)
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To: pcottraux

"The author says here that there is a chilling scene in the movie where one of the Palestinian group's leaders makes a frightening and evil-sounding speech on how their goals are to eliminate Israel."

According to another reviewer, this person arises because the Israelies were killing the "moderates".

It's a "Blame the Joos" for Palestinians wanting to wipe them out, a way leftists deflect blame from their idealized other.


20 posted on 12/16/2005 11:45:29 AM PST by Shermy
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