The Problem with God: Interview with Richard Dawkins

Beliefnet ^ | 12/05 | by Laura Sheahen

[tbird5]

The renowned biologist talks about intelligent design, dishonest Christians, and why God is no better than an imaginary friend.

British biologist Richard Dawkins has made a name for himself defending evolution and fighting what he sees as religiously motivated attacks on science. Dr. Dawkins sat down with Beliefnet at the World Congress of Secular Humanism, where his keynote address focused on intelligent design.

You're concerned about the state of education, especially science education. If you were able to teach every person, what would you want people to believe?

I would want them to believe whatever evidence leads them to; I would want them to look at the evidence, judge it on its merits, not accept things because of internal revelation or faith, but purely on the basis of evidence.

Not everybody can evaluate all evidence; we can’t evaluate the evidence for quantum physics. So it does have to be a certain amount of taking things on trust. I have to take what physicists say on trust, for example, because I'm a biologist. But science [has] a system of appraisal, of peer review, so that I trust the physics community to get their act together in a way that I know from the inside. I wish people would put their trust in evidence, not in faith, revelation, tradition, or authority.

[SupplySider]

Sentencing a well-intentioned but mistaken man to not a quadrillion years of torture, but eternity, with no reprieve if he repents, is the cruelest thing I can imagine. I have to think there is something wrong with this interpretation.

God doesn't send anybody to hell for a mistake. That said, they choose to go to hell out of love for their sins, and thereby reject the light. (John 3:19) Every man is given more than enough EVIDENCE to make the right decision, but they simply reject it.

I doubt that this gentleman Richard Hawkins thinks that without Jesus's salvation he will burn in hell forever, but that he will choose that option anyway and go with science so that he can continue to enjoy his sins. He's probably sincere in his beliefs, if misguided, that rationality in the form of Western science is the best way to truth.

I take him as an example. Is every person born in Egypt and raised in an Islamic culture, or Indian in a Hindu one, similarly doomed because of his love of sin and rejection of God, if he has heard the Word of Christ and instead gone with his own training and family background?

[SupplySider]

Imagine your son is playing in the street. A car comes barreling around the corner, and a stranger runs in front of the car to his certain death, and pushes your son out of harm's way. You are angry at your son, but you also have contempt for the man's decision, which cost him his life. Walking away you call him a fool.

It is one thing to have contempt for the unknown dead man giving his life, but would you say the same thing if you discovered the man was the president? Now imagine for a minute that in rejecting Christ you have shown contempt and hostility towards someone far more important, the God of all Creation who gave His only begotten Son for your soul.

I don't believe that all atheists, agnostics, and followers of non-Christian religions are showing contempt and hostility to God. They are making their choices as best they can based on what they know about life, even if they are wrong.

Even for those who are contempuous, God offers salvation through Jesus Christ, if they repent Why must that offer be rescinded the moment a person's body dies? Why can't the offer stand even in hell, where a person would presumably lose his doubts about it?

To bring in another analogy, if a child loses his temper at being confronted by a parent with his bad behavior and screams "I hate you!!", the parent may punish the child. Be he will not hold the grudge forever and banish the child to an orphanage. Our heavenly father must be even more merciful than the average dad.

[GarySpFc]

I don't believe that all atheists, agnostics, and followers of non-Christian religions are showing contempt and hostility to God. They are making their choices as best they can based on what they know about life, even if they are wrong.

According to how I read the Bible that simply is not true.

Even for those who are contempuous, God offers salvation through Jesus Christ, if they repent Why must that offer be rescinded the moment a person's body dies? Why can't the offer stand even in hell, where a person would presumably lose his doubts about it?

What I hear you saying is you want to withhold your decision so you can have your fun now, correct? God has stated the decision must be based on faith, not sight. The Bible is clear that after death we will see face to face, and so the decision has to be made prior to death.

To bring in another analogy, if a child loses his temper at being confronted by a parent with his bad behavior and screams "I hate you!!", the parent may punish the child. Be he will not hold the grudge forever and banish the child to an orphanage. Our heavenly father must be even more merciful than the average dad.

God is merciful, but his love is also just. Your logic demands his forgiveness, and the Bible says He will offer it to a point. However, he knows when someone is being presumptuous, and the offer of mercy is withdrawn after a season.

[VOYAGER]

I wish people would put their trust in evidence, not in faith, revelation, tradition, or authority.

"....in that day every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Dawkins if you can read and God opens your understanding pray God will have mercy on your dark and worldly soul and all those who proclaim there is no God which you have readily declared yourself to be a proud and willing member

[DennisR]

I will pause before posting next time. :)

[bvw]

Creation is purposeful. The purpose seems to include the development of full and completed souls. It seems to me that even the worst man alive, when death arrives has some soul that can be repaired in another go-round, for that soul was created with some purpose. It may be that some souls don't last forever -- that is over the full duration of time. Yet in the world beyond time there that soul would still be, exist, in some way. And while left to its own it may suffer the most painful and unending, unresovable-internally regrets (hell-like, that), still even then as bound back to G-d it would achieve both purpose and peace.

Considerations of what is to come or what is beyond are nil value compared to what a person may next do to make his or her life worthwhile to self and other and spiritually a joy.

[caffe]

So you admit your a dumb-ass?

[caffe]

God gave us science! He created order and he created the universe , our earth, with maturity. Adam and Eve were created as mature adults and all the trees were fruitul and mature. The relationship between science and faith is simply to know that our world is not chaotic because God created order and wants us to know His glory thru His creation.

[Elsie]

Amen!

[Elsie]

In your opinion, did evolution occur with or without God's guidance?

In your opinion, have I stopped or do I continue to beat my wife?

[Elsie]

 

I find the notion that God had to (or chose to) reach down and give things a "nudge" in some direction from time to time to be...inelegant.

Genesis 1

 

 1.  In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
 2.  Now the earth was  formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
 3.  And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

 

 

This is a GOD who creates by speaking; but; how LONG did it take?

 

Now Jesus was a man who had God-like powers.  Was HE God?   The Book says so.......

 

 

 

 

NIV Colossians 1:13-17
 13.  For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
 14.  in whom we have redemption,  the forgiveness of sins.

 15.  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
 16.  For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
 17.  He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

 

 

NIV Revelation 4:11
 11.  "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

 

 

NIV Revelation 10:6
 6.  And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, "There will be no more delay!

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Notice that when this man speaks, things happen RIGHT NOW!   Not after some times passes and the body heals itself.

 

 

 

NIV Matthew 8:2-3

 2.  A man with leprosy  came and knelt before him and said, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
 3.  Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cured  of his leprosy.

 

 

NIV Matthew 21:19
   Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

 

 

NIV Mark 1:41-42
 41.  Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!"
 42.  Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured.

 

 

NIV Mark 5:41-42

 41.  He took her by the hand and said to her, "Talitha koum!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!").
 42.  Immediately the girl stood up and walked around (she was twelve years old). At this they were completely astonished.

 

 

NIV Mark 10:51-52

 51.  "What do you want me to do for you?" Jesus asked him.   The blind man said, "Rabbi, I want to see."
 52.  "Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

 

 

NIV Luke 5:13

  Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" And Immediately the leprosy left him.

 

 

NIV Luke 5:24-25

 24.  But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . ." He said to the paralyzed man, "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home."
 25.  Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God.

 

 

NIV Luke 8:44

  She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and Immediately her bleeding stopped.

 

 

NIV Luke 13:12-13

 12.  When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity."
 13.  Then he put his hands on her, and Immediately she straightened up and praised God.

 

 

NIV Luke 18:42-43

 42.  Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has healed you."
 43.  Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus, praising God. When all the people saw it, they also praised God.

 

 

NIV Acts 9:33-35

 33.  There he found a man named Aeneas, a paralytic who had been bedridden for eight years.
 34.  "Aeneas," Peter said to him, "Jesus Christ heals you. Get up and take care of your mat." Immediately Aeneas got up.
 35.  All those who lived in Lydda and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord.

 

 

NIV Matthew 8:13
 13.  Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! It will be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

 

 

NIV Matthew 15:28
 28.  Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

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Now if this same personage, who can do things in an instant, how LONG would it take Him to CREATE all of this???

[Elsie]

 

I agree fully with you that it's possible to be a Christian and still believe in the theory of evolution.

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Most Christians 'believe' Evolution because they do NOT know what their Bible says.  If, as they say, they 'believe' the words of Jesus and then of the New Testament writers, they have to decide what the following verses mean:

 

Romans 5:12-21
 12.  Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
 13.  for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
 14.  Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
 15.  But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
 16.  Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
 17.  For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
 18.  Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
 19.  For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
 20.  The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
 21.  so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

 

If there were  no one man, that means SIN did NOT enter the World thru him.

 

If Adam was NOT the one man, that means SPIRITUAL DEATH did not come thru him.

 

If SIN did NOT enter the World thru the one man, that means Jesus does not save from SIN.

 

 

Are we to believe that the one man is symbolic?  Does that mean Jesus is symbolic as well?

 

 

The Theory of Evolution states that there WAS no one man, but a wide population that managed to inherit that last mutated gene that makes MEN different from APES.

 

 

 

 

1 Timothy 2:13

  For Adam was formed first, then Eve.   Was Paul WRONG about this???

 

 

 

[Elsie]

fruitless??

are you SURE?

[Elsie]

I just feel it would be sinful to turn off my God given brain.

Indeed!

Just realize that it's an antenna for input from both sides.

---

The cartoon of a fellow with an angel on one shoulder and a demon on the other is quite accurate!

[Luke Skyfreeper]

Kalam's argument holds that everything with a beginning had a beginner. Since G-d is eternal and unchanging, He has no beginning and does not require a First Cause.

The Kalam Cosmological Argument, which William Lane Craig has made much of. I don't have too much of a comment on that, execpt to note that it's different than the argument from complexity, which is what I and Dawkins were referring to.

[Luke Skyfreeper]

[Why do so many 'Christians' produce such a stinking odor?]

[Not all, of course, but so many...]

[Elsie]

I don't know the man's heart, so I take him as an example.

NIV Matthew 12:34
 34.  You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 

 

NIV Luke 6:45
 45.  The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

 

 

 

 

NIV Luke 6:46-49
 46.  "Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
 47.  I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice.
 48.  He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
 49.  But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."

 

 

[Elsie]

 

I think that most people upon arriving in hell would want to repent and turn to God.

 

Indeed!!!

 

NIV Luke 16:19-31
 19.  "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
 20.  At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores
 21.  and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
 22.  "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
 23.  In hell,  where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
 24.  So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
 25.  "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
 26.  And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
 27.  "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,
 28.  for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
 29.  "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
 30.  "`No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
 31.  "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

[Luke Skyfreeper]

I believe in God. My evidence? My wife was dianosed with a lump in breast. In one weeks time, she was to have a biopsy. I prayed like I never prayed before, and she was on the prayer list of many people at the church. The day she went in for her biopsy, no lump. That was back in 98. I believed in God before that and really believe in Him after that.

Excellent evidence from a very personal point of view.

Though I've frankly been tempted fairly often to become an atheist, t's actually things not dissimilar to this that cause me to continue to believe in God as well.

Then of course there's the difficulty of the cases where people pray and believe with all their guts, and the person simply dies.

A guy in my church died of cancer about a week ago.

I have another friend from the same church (and this is a church where people do pray for such things) who's been deemed terminal with cancer by the doctors. Not much older than me. Wife and two kids. How many months left? Don't know.

My wife also lost an aunt to cancer this year. About a month after diagnosis, and she was gone. The family prayed and prayed and believed she would be healed.

And yet it does seem to me that there is more going on in the universe than meets the eye.

[Chuzzlewit]

I have attempted to read his book "The Blind Watchmaker"... in which he states that evolution is the watchmaker and that evolution proves there is no God. I couldn't finish it.

However, I'm in the middle of a book right now that is far more intriguing called "The Science of God", by Gerald L. Schroeder (Scientist, philosopher) that seems far more plausible and posits the opposite.. that the big bang PROVES that there was intelligent design. A creator began it all from the big bang onward.. guiding evolution. A great read, and extremely powerful argument is presented in this book.