JON CARROLL: The Senseless Death Penalty

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 12/12/5 | Jon Carroll

[SmithL]

Stanley Tookie Williams, the convicted murderer, has done an impressive amount of stuff since his incarceration in 1981. He has written an autobiography plus eight books for children about gangs and gang violence. He has spoken eloquently about the destruction that drugs and gangs can cause. He has rallied an impressive array of people to the cause of his appeal for clemency from his death sentence. He has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize any number of times.

His supporters say he has turned his life around. He has become a force for good. He merits special consideration because he has been so important in motivating children not to choose the life that he did. Those arguments, quite frankly, make me nuts.

I have no opinion about whether Tookie Williams has been rehabilitated. I'm not even sure that "rehabilitation" is a meaningful concept. A lot of people in prison are con artists; it's a useful skill on the street. The way to clemency was undoubtedly clear to a man of Williams' intelligence, and the fact that he chose that path means that either (a) he has had a change of heart or (b) that he hasn't. I dunno. I can't judge from afar, and neither can you.

I think subjective judgments about character are not really relevant in death penalty cases. To believe that they are relevant is to believe that uncharismatic, untalented, surly and/or mentally retarded death row prisoners are not worth saving, while a really cool guy is. Are we saying that it's OK to kill sneaky little weasel-faced people and not OK to kill handsome, intelligent, well-muscled people? It's fine to construct a hierarchy of character if one is, say, choosing a mate or a president. . . .

[pepperhead]

ZOT!!!!!!

[Slings and Arrows]

I love zotting Nazis.

[IronJack]

The death penalty is not INTENDED to be a deterrent. Its purpose is to administer justice, a punishment befitting the crime to which it is applied. The fact that it is an ABSOLUTE deterrent to the particular criminal to whom it is applied is just an ancillary benefit.

If executing Dookie never deters another single human being from committing murder, the sentence still accomplishes its primary goal: it balances the scales as well as justice can.

[pepperhead]

Me too.

[NCLaw441]

I appreciate your exposition on scripture and capital punishment. Interestingly, had your analysis concluded that capital punishment is not allowed under biblical teachings, it would have been coopted by the liberals, despite their normal insistence on separation of church and state. Since the libs do claim this separation, and since this separation has infested most of the rest of government, including our legal system, our analysis should be done only the basis of logic and objectivity, and not what the left would under any other circumstances label as blind faith on a "crutch" of a God.

In my personal life I adhere to Christ's teachings, or at least I try to. But this is a government and governmental justice, which cannot be influenced by religion in selected applications, while ignoring it in all others.

[delphirogatio]

The whole lot of the anti-capital punishment crowd annoys me for so many reasons. I'll narrow it to just two for now. Firstly, it is not called capital deterrent; it is called capital punishment. Frankly, I couldn't care less whether it DOES deter anyone else. Any deterrent effect is secondary to the prime reason for performing the execution and goes down in my book as a "freebie". Secondly, it seems so odd that the liberal left can, with a straight face, espouse both abortion AND anti-capital punishment causes. So, to them, it makes sense that someone who has never had the chance (or ability) to choose a life can be murdered at whim, but we should save the ones who choose evil as a way of life? You can't reason with that kind of willful, blithe ignorance.

[Matchett-PI]

"... Since the libs do claim this separation, and since this separation has infested most of the rest of government, including our legal system, our analysis should be done only the basis of logic and objectivity, and not what the left would under any other circumstances label as blind faith on a "crutch" of a God. ..."

The day the leftist relativists stop attempting to use their subjective "moral" arguments for why we shouldn't have capital punishment, thats the day when I won't use the absolute (objective) standard for morality (that our constitution guards), to rebut them.

[mugs99]

Are we saying that it's OK to kill sneaky little weasel-faced people and not OK to kill handsome, intelligent, well-muscled people?

That's exactly what Hollywood is telling us!
.

[Dont_Tread_On_Me_888]

I would not read any article with a title claiming the death penalty is "senseles".

Responding to the title, what IS senseless is waiting 25 years or more to execute scumbags. If these scumbag were executed within two yeas or so of their crimes (allowing for a reasonable appeal) the death penalty would be far more a deterrent.

How many murders are committed each year versus how many executions are carried each year? Anybody have the stats? This is why the death penalty does not scare criminals. I would like to see a daily execution carried out live on the Public Broadcast System. Now that would help deter criminals.

[Titan Magroyne]

Yo, Tookie, continue your life's lesson to the kiddies by forfeiting yours for your murders. Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you?

[pepperhead]

Your right it is a penalty. Every so often you hear some anti-capital punishment person say life in prison is far worse than being put to death. Well if that is so why don't prosecutors offer the death penalty to criminals? After all it is better than life in prison. And why do people on death row go through endless appeals when they are guilty as hell?

[NCLaw441]

I agree with you. I just wanted to get out the thought that the left is perfectly willing to use religion if it might help their goals, but they are unwilling to help shoulder the burden that our religious faith requires.

[joylyn]

It isn't just death that the anti-capital punishment crowd object to. Since "society" is ultimately to blame for everything, they have a problem with significant punishment of any kind. If they win on the death penalty, we'll soon see a campaign to reduce sentences, esp. "life without parole" as this, too, is cruel and unusual.

[delphirogatio]

I, too, have heard the "life in prison is much worse" line, too; and, it presents yet another logical flaw, seems to me. If I follow the anti-capital punishment crowd's argument, it goes like this: Capital punishment is so terrible and cruel that no human should be subjected to it. Life in prison is worse than death so we should subject them to that instead. ??? I get so dizzy when I go in circles.

[Avoiding_Sulla]

This charts implies, even though it cannot prove correlation conclusively, that there could be dire consequences for those society is supposed to protect. "The death penalty doesn't deter murder" is an often mindlessly repeated assertion. And it is extremist because it asserts that NONE WILL BE DETERRED. Pure and utter nonsense. Some will be deterred.

Look at that chart and consider how many would still be alive were only 10 percent of just the additional murders were deterred.

Those who repeat the extremist line "the death penalty doesn't deter" callously risk vast numbers of innocent lives for the sake that they not be deterred from their opinion.

[pepperhead]

LOL I am going to use that on them next time. If life in prison is so bad why don't we just kill them. LOL

[EagleUSA]

Those who repeat the extremist line "the death penalty doesn't deter"
----
...are simply liberal morons. In many respects, the human is a simple animal. Fire burns -- so you don't stick your hand in fire. Simple systems with high risk ALWAYS are a deterrent to all but the most mentally sick.

[sandbar]

>>>The death penalty does not deter and it does not CURE.

It sure the hell does. Once dead, that person is guaranteed to no longer murder another human being.

[Avoiding_Sulla]

Sadly, you will not get those who are allegedly on your side answering as you do.

My argument is for them. Those who will back away from their duty due to the volume and intensity of your opponents.

And not all your opponents are morons; some are merely playing that role -- all the better to frustrate you. They get sympathetic press; and then the press lets them call you all sorts of despicable names.

You must battle with those allegedly on your side -- like this allegedly Republican governor.

[Slings and Arrows]

If these scumbag were executed within two yeas

"All in favor of executing this scumbag?"

"Yea!"

"Yea!"

*BANG*
--
Works for me.