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(Bush Speech Live Thread) Bush to compare Iraqis to America's founders
CNN ^ | 12/12/05 | Unknown

Posted on 12/12/2005 6:09:11 AM PST by Coop

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush is using a visit to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, birthplace of the U.S. Constitution, as a reminder before the Iraqi elections that the path to American democracy was not always easy either.

Pennsylvania also is the home state of a leading Iraq war critic, Democratic Rep. John Murtha, who planned to speak on Bush's heels and repeat his call to bring the troops home from a fight he says has become too violent and out of control...

Iraqis are preparing to vote under tight security to elect a 275-member parliament that will run the country for the next four years. The election will be the first under the new constitution ratified in an October 15 referendum and will complete the steps toward democratization following the ouster of Saddam Hussein's government.

Monday's Iraq speech is Bush's third, part of a campaign to win support for the mission, with most Americans saying in polls that they disapprove of his handling of the war. The speech is scheduled for 11:15 a.m. ET.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush43; elections; foundingfathers; gnfi; iraq; iraqielection; iraqspeech; terrorism
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To: ohioWfan
Which is why no one here has done that.

Well that's not exactly true is it?

Your post in #112

If you REALLY want to go back to democracy's roots, bill, you need to go all the way back to creation, when God made the first man and woman with the desire in their hearts to be free

A clear attempt to tie 'the desire in their hearts to be free' to 'democracy's roots'. As if one cannot be free except through democracy

441 posted on 12/13/2005 7:20:11 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
Twisting, bill.

The root of democracy is a God-given desire for freedom that was in the hearts of our Founders ('.....the Laws of Nature and Nature's God').

That is not even close to saying that the Bible teaches democracy, or any other form of government.

You're smarter than that. You're arguing a point I did not make..........and I believe you know it.

442 posted on 12/13/2005 7:29:21 AM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: billbears
One final point.

One cannot be truly free other than through Jesus Christ. It is clear that many of those on this forum who are the Constitution's strongest supporters are enslaved to their political ideology and filled with anger, and do not experience true freedom.

I see it every day. Democracy and freedom are not one and the same thing, but democracy (more accurately, a representative republic) is the system of government that grants us the most freedom to find the real thing......

443 posted on 12/13/2005 7:51:51 AM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan
I never compared the men to any of the Founding Fathers. All I said was that there were philosophers and great thinkers in the Islamic world...........and there were. That was what you were scoffing at out of your ignorance. The presence of the barbarians does not negate the presence of those who are civil, intelligent and thoughtful. The culture and religion present great problems, but my whole point (which you apparently chose to miss) is that humans are humans...........created in God's image, with imagination, soul and a desire for God. The Islamic people are innately no different than we are.....It is faith, and confidence in the God who sent His Son to die for ALL people........not just Americans

Instead, you should be thanking our Heavenly Father for victory at the Battle of Tours (often called the Battle of Poitiers, but not to be confused with the Battle of Poitiers, 1356). It was fought on October 10, 732 between forces under the Frankish leader Charles Martel and an Islamic army led by Emir Abd al Rahman, near the city of Tours, France. During the battle, the Franks defeated the Islamic army and Emir Abd er Rahman was killed. This battle stopped the northward advance of Islam from the Iberian peninsula, and is considered by most historians to be of macrohistorical importance, in that it may have halted the invasion of Europe by Muslims, and preserved Christianity as the controlling faith, during a period in which Islam was overrunning the remains of the old Roman and Persian Empires. Otherwise, you'd probably be wearing a Burka now and denied any access to the education you have enjoyed...prominent Islamic philsophers my Aunt Fanny!

444 posted on 12/13/2005 8:21:18 AM PST by meandog (FUDU)
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To: meandog
I'm sure there was a point to all that.

But none of it changes the fact that there were Islamic philosophers that you didn't know, and arrogantly claimed didn't exist.

So I would be very careful about making fun of others out of your own ignorance in the future.

(Or posting frilly panties and quoting Molly Ivans, Terry McCauliffe and Michael Moore and thinking you're cool by doing so.....)

You're not as smart OR cool as you think you are, meandog. And you don't do a very good job of hiding it.......

445 posted on 12/13/2005 8:37:09 AM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan
For a story on a REAL hero click here
446 posted on 12/13/2005 10:28:25 AM PST by meandog (FUDU)
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To: Valin

"Really. The French gave support almost from the start."


In nowhere near the level of support our military has given Iraq.

To suggest otherwise is insulting to our patriotic ancestors and our men/women in the military today.


447 posted on 12/13/2005 11:29:18 AM PST by Blzbba ("Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart" - Ashe, Housewares)
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To: meandog
Yeah..........I agree. He's a real hero.

Too bad he's not even close to being a conservative. If he were, I might share your admiration for him in the present.

Now was there a point to that, Molly?

448 posted on 12/13/2005 12:00:52 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan
Too bad he's not even close to being a conservative. If he were, I might share your admiration for him in the present.

What's not conservative about being pro-life, pro-military (advocates even more strength in numbers in Gulf theater than "W" because he feels it necessary to win the war), anti-high tax and spending, a balanced budget deficit hawk? The only 2 things I fault him on is a mediocre stand on illegal immigration (like Bush, I understand that he's playing to a Hispanic constituency that elected him) and his patently wrong stand on limiting 2nd amendment freedoms (so-called assault rifles).

449 posted on 12/13/2005 12:25:03 PM PST by meandog (FUDU)
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To: Coop

The Arabic peoples are descendants of Abraham's son, Ishmael. There is a very distinct peophesy regarding his descendants in Genesis 16:12, "And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him: and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."

Not Condolisa Rice, the State Department, nor the entire might of the US Armed Forces can change that prophesy. The nature of the descendants of Ishmael will remain the same until Abraham's God, in the Person of Jesus Christ, returns to rule from David's Throne.

That does not mean that every single individual descendant of Ishmael will continue the "hand against every man" life-style. Those who come under the restraints of a more ordered society around them, must conform to a degree. And of course, those Arabs (we know some) who come to know the falacy of Islam, and repent toward (Abraham's) God and place their faith in His Son for His Redemption are given a new nature.

The prophesy also does not mean we are looking for any possible excuse to be at war with them...but we shall not have to go looking either. Christians are never instructed to make converts under threat of arms. We are to present the Gospel of Christ to ALL men, Islamists included, and pray for their understanding, their repentance, and their faith in Christ, as the Holy Spirit of God convicts them. As long as the descendants of Ishamael adhere to Islam, they will be against the Jews and against the Christians. Missionaries to Muslim countries have always been at great risk of their life to preach the Cross of Christ to Muslims.

NO diplomacy will change Ishmael's nature. And no constitution suited to a Christian people will be long adhered to by the sons of Ishmael.

I realize you would like to witness the success of President Bush and his objectives in Iraq. So would I. But if you are young enough to live another 50 years, you will die witnessing the ongoing reality of the prophesy of Genesis 16:12.

The only answer for the individual Islamist is repentance from Islam to Christ, and the only answer, ultimately, for the currently Islamist nations (that is, as nations), is the return of the King of Kings...Who will sweep away Islam altogether.


450 posted on 12/13/2005 3:46:27 PM PST by Free Baptist
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To: Coop
Bravo Bush. . .

The radicals have his effigy ready, no doubt.

That is, both the Islamists and the Libs. . .

451 posted on 09/19/2006 9:31:01 AM PDT by cricket (Live Liberal free. . .or suffer their consequences. . .)
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To: Rummyfan
It's great that the President is doing this, but shouldn't at least one of these speeches been given in prime time with all-network coverage?

Ahmadinejad has the 'prime time' slot. . .and Lib excitement is palpable. . .

452 posted on 09/19/2006 10:25:46 AM PDT by cricket (Live Liberal free. . .or suffer their consequences. . .)
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