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(Bush Speech Live Thread) Bush to compare Iraqis to America's founders
CNN ^ | 12/12/05 | Unknown

Posted on 12/12/2005 6:09:11 AM PST by Coop

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush is using a visit to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, birthplace of the U.S. Constitution, as a reminder before the Iraqi elections that the path to American democracy was not always easy either.

Pennsylvania also is the home state of a leading Iraq war critic, Democratic Rep. John Murtha, who planned to speak on Bush's heels and repeat his call to bring the troops home from a fight he says has become too violent and out of control...

Iraqis are preparing to vote under tight security to elect a 275-member parliament that will run the country for the next four years. The election will be the first under the new constitution ratified in an October 15 referendum and will complete the steps toward democratization following the ouster of Saddam Hussein's government.

Monday's Iraq speech is Bush's third, part of a campaign to win support for the mission, with most Americans saying in polls that they disapprove of his handling of the war. The speech is scheduled for 11:15 a.m. ET.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush43; elections; foundingfathers; gnfi; iraq; iraqielection; iraqspeech; terrorism
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To: Mo1
Murtha was a company grade reserve officer who served briefly in Vietnam. Thanks for your service, 40 years ago, Mr. Murtha. But your military experience does not in and of itself qualify you to decide strategic issues for the whole country. If it did, then Sgt. York would be undisputed emperor and generalissimo of the universe.

These nasty old farts who think they know it all should take a page from the book of the millions of humble heros who don't trade on their heroism, real or imagined.

381 posted on 12/12/2005 11:11:54 AM PST by rmgatto
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To: ohioWfan
Were not the peoples of the Middle East free in some fashion before 1918 (the first time this century Western nations interfered with international lines)? How about shortly after WWII (the second time IIRC Western nations interfered in Iraq)? That attempt at 'democracy' failed then as well. What happens when the Iraqis vote in a theocratic or monarchist system (which will eventually happen)? Will it still be considered a win?

Secondly define 'free'. A desire to be free from all form of government? That's anarchy that is. Or is 'free' defined by whatever is the prevalent form of government in Western nations, namely our nation of states at the moment?

382 posted on 12/12/2005 11:12:37 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
What happens when the Iraqis vote in a theocratic or monarchist system (which will eventually happen)? Will it still be considered a win?

Not by you. Then again, nothing by you is ever considered a win. If the Iraqis hold a free election and choose their own government, I'm going to be happy. Even if it's not my ideal government - which we all know it won't be.

383 posted on 12/12/2005 11:19:37 AM PST by Coop (FR = a lotta talk, but little action)
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To: ohioWfan
You greatly underestimate the Iraqi people, bill.

LOL, I underestimate no one. Cultural differences do exist. For someone to deny such existence is to look at the world through rose colored glasses

Great philosophers and thinkers have come from that region.

Of course they have. Don't remember many in the lot advocating republican form of government though. Do you? John Locke Mohammed? Adam Al Smith? Nope sorry.

I believe that America is exceptional, but one of the things that is exceptional in this country is that our Founders wrote within the founding documents the need to overcome innate sin with checks and balances, and drew our laws from God's laws.

And the Iraqi constitution has stated they will draw their laws from a religion based on a 3000 year old dead moon god whose sole prophet 'married' little girls. Nice. Hope that works out for them. It won't but I hope it does for the short term so the troops can come home

The Iraqi people are no more sinful than American people, and if safeguards have been written into their constitution, they have every chance of success.

Oh yes, safeguards. Let's set a safeguard by writing into the constitution two aspects that for all intent and purposes are mutually exclusive. Democratic and civil rights safeguards guaranteed. At the same time, every law must be based on the precepts of Islam. Yep, that'll work. For all of about five minutes into the first convening of their governing body

(And don't confuse optimism with being a 'pollyanna.' Just because you are a pessimist doesn't mean that the President who is not, is simplistic).

I think a lot of things about the President. Simplistic isn't necessarily one of them

384 posted on 12/12/2005 11:21:58 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Coop
We understand what the president is doing, but he should not try to make the current Iraqi leadership look like our founding fathers in the eyes of the American peoeple--there are just too many inconsistencies in this. It will open him up to attacks that he doesn't need. There are no Iraqi leaders that have the character or faith of a Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin, Mason, Wilson, Gerry, Pinckney, and the others.

I would remind you that the Republic of the Philippines has a constitution that was based closely upon the Constitution for the united States of America. But the Philippines has regularly made a shambles of things, because they do not have the heart concept of being a nation of LAWS. More people die (political rival bloodshed) every election day in the Philippines than on any other given day.

I expect the same for Iraq, if THAT good, because they will not be abandoning Islam.
385 posted on 12/12/2005 11:33:16 AM PST by Free Baptist
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To: Free Baptist
There are no Iraqi leaders that have the character or faith of a Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin, Mason, Wilson, Gerry, Pinckney, and the others.

And you've seen this in your daily interaction with Iraq's political leaders?

386 posted on 12/12/2005 11:35:57 AM PST by Coop (FR = a lotta talk, but little action)
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To: TomGuy
B.S

The press has refused to cover prime-time speeches by this President before. At least twice before, perhaps more.

387 posted on 12/12/2005 11:35:58 AM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Rummyfan
The MSM has refused to carry speeches by the President unless they are 'making news'.

Pretty pathetic but then when I think of how many times slick willie and his ilk would abuse the right to speak to the nation, I can understand.

388 posted on 12/12/2005 12:00:42 PM PST by OldFriend (The Dems enABLEd DANGER and 3,000 Americans died.)
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To: Justanobody

Media reporting Murtha citing a poll as his reasons for wanting to cut and run....to Okinawa.


389 posted on 12/12/2005 12:01:59 PM PST by OldFriend (The Dems enABLEd DANGER and 3,000 Americans died.)
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To: Miss Marple

Did Murtha vote for the draft when it came for a vote?


390 posted on 12/12/2005 12:03:52 PM PST by OldFriend (The Dems enABLEd DANGER and 3,000 Americans died.)
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To: Mo1

What did Murtha have to say?


391 posted on 12/12/2005 12:05:25 PM PST by Howlin
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To: OldFriend
Advanced Alzheimer's perhaps? What an idiot!
392 posted on 12/12/2005 12:09:45 PM PST by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem! WBB lives on. Beware the Enemedia.)
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To: MEG33
If they get something wrong, no one can criticize you for reporting what they say.

My concern was being accused of not getting it right the first time, but since it was repeated several times during the early evening, there was no question what I heard. In any event, foxnews did respond to my e-mail with some flimsy excuse only an idiot would believe.

393 posted on 12/12/2005 12:13:55 PM PST by StarFan
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To: All
Link to transcript, including Q&A

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/12/20051212-4.html

394 posted on 12/12/2005 12:20:25 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: OldFriend
The Republican-controlled House held the vote to make sure it was defeated during a close presidential race in which talk of a draft has run rampant. The vote was 402-2.

Rangel voted against his own bill because it was not subjected to hearings and testimony from Bush administration officials. "This is hypocrisy of the worst kind," he said. "I would not encourage any Democrat running for re-election to vote for this bill." Only Democratic Reps. John Murtha of Pennsylvania and Pete Stark of California voted for it.

ROTFLOL!

395 posted on 12/12/2005 12:21:31 PM PST by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem! WBB lives on. Beware the Enemedia.)
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To: Cboldt
including Q&A

Yippeee!!! President Bush did a wonderful job during the Q&A. I'm so glad it was included!

396 posted on 12/12/2005 12:28:26 PM PST by Just A Nobody (I - LOVE - my attitude problem! WBB lives on. Beware the Enemedia.)
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To: Coop

With all good news the President covered in his speech today AP decides to run with the headline of 30000 Iraqis die in war effort. Call the AP at the # below and tell them they are nothing but a propagada arm for Al Qaeda.

The Associated Press

Headquarters
450 W. 33rd St.
New York, NY 10001

Main Number
+1-212-621-1500

AP Bureaus


397 posted on 12/12/2005 12:34:28 PM PST by deVan
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To: Fishtalk

The no WMD thing is a canard.

The investigation after we invaded turned up that Saddam planned to continue weakening the sanctions until they were removed, and that he maintained and secreted the ability to reconstitute his research and development program. An Iraqi scientist proved that Saddam instructed him to hide stuff related to the nuclear program in his garden at his own home. He later wrote a book..."The Bomb in My Garden".

Bush is taking all of this and much else into account when he says he would do it again.


398 posted on 12/12/2005 1:00:49 PM PST by txrangerette
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To: txrangerette
The investigation after we invaded turned up that Saddam planned to continue weakening the sanctions until they were removed

Not only that, Russia and France were working towards the same goal. I don't believe, however difficult the roots are to trace in the current landscape, that those politics ended when Saddam's statue fell.

399 posted on 12/12/2005 1:10:16 PM PST by Dolphy
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To: Fishtalk

Wiley::The Bomb in My Garden: The Secrets of Saddam's Nuclear Mastermind

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471679658.html


400 posted on 12/12/2005 1:19:11 PM PST by txrangerette
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