Posted on 12/09/2005 12:56:14 AM PST by kipita
WASHINGTON, 9 December 2005 — Here in the United States, witnesses taking the stand in a court of law traditionally are asked to swear to tell the truth — by placing their right hand on the Bible.
So when Muslims in Guilford County, North Carolina, tried to donate copies of the Qur’an for courtroom use, Chief District Court Judge Joseph Turner rejected the proposal.
Taking an oath on the Qur’an is not allowed by North Carolina state law, he said, which specifies that witnesses shall place their hands on the “Holy Scriptures,” which he interprets as the Christian Bible.
“We’ve been doing it that way for 200 years,” he told reporters. “Until the legislature changes that law, I believe I have to do what I’ve been told to do in the statutes.”
The Council on American-Islamic Relations and the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the decision by the Guilford County Courts.
“This was the first time that we had a judge... going on record and stating unilaterally what is a holy scripture and what is not — what we believe to be a violation of the establishment clause,” said Arsalan Iftikhar, legal director of CAIR.
The anticipated decision comes four months after the ACLU of North Carolina and CAIR filed a lawsuit asking a judge to clarify that state law allows people to swear on religious texts other than the Christian Bible. The lawsuit followed objections made this summer over the inability of Muslims to be sworn in Guilford County courts using the Qur’an.
When the state Administrative Office of the Courts declined to intervene, the ACLU and CAIR took the issue to court, arguing that the term “Holy Scriptures” is broad enough to include many religious texts.
Local papers report that the state attorney general’s office initially argued in court papers that the ACLU and CAIR lacked the right to sue because there is no controversy to settle between the parties.
"I guess the reverse would be if Muslim countries would allow the Bible to be used instead of the Qur’an. I think the answer would be "no".
In Islamic Countries, no public display of any other religion is permitted.
If we must tolerate these people - and I think we should not - they should be subjected to the same treatment extended to non-Muslims in Islamic countries.
well, there is that little line in the koranus about it being ok to lie to the infidel. last time i checked, moses and jesus did not say you can lie to anyone who doesnt believe like you do, did they? if the koran is allowed in us courts, which are already about as bad as can be, it is time for me to start checking about emigration to australia.
would it be wrong to suggest making Korans available in the court's restrooms?
You can take the oath without a Bible, its optional.
Do we let him give testimony without taking an oath (and imagine what a liberal appeals judge would do to that)? Do we let the cop killer walk? Or do we go out to get a Qur'an?
Very interesting debate.
After thinking a bit I tend to agree (again, good debate). If you have the world's best economy, best system of governance, best military, etc. do you use other countries as measuring sticks? On the other hand, will "changes" due to assimilation "transform" the once-successful Christian based superpower America?
I know what you're saying, but that ain't the point. Our country and constitution is Christian based.
You can practice any religion you want to in the US, but if we allow the invasion of heathenistic religions, such as islam, into our governmental processes that are Christian based, then don't be surprised to wake one day and find islamic law on the books and 'In Mohammad We Trust' on our currency.
When the law was written, "The Holy Scriptures" meant the "Bible." Anything else would have been an abomination, false scripture etc. For once, I don't think one judge is acting unilaterally in his definition but is actually upholding the law.
We should use them as our models of civilization?
We shouldn't extend to them the rights and privileges they deny to others.
Better yet we remove them from our midst.
Do you know what a Cult is?
Islam is a Cult. Cults decree death for members who leave. Islam does this. It also decrees death for anyone who tries to "convert" a Muslim.
Right.
The Koran is about lying to non muslims, murdering non muslims, raping non muslims, the list goes on and on.............
After spending some time in jail on contempt of court charges, he will be properly sworn in, and if he lies during testimony, then he will get some more time for perjury. Easy!
I't makes no sense to swear on a book that promotes deception.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations and the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the decision by the Guilford County Courts.
these filth piles shouldn't even be allowed to exist, and it doesn't matter what an islamic person puts his hand on, they are going to lie to the "infidels"
The ACLU and CAIR lost this one... http://www.wral.com/news/5494317/detail.html
But only on a technicality because no person was named in the original lawsuit.
A judge threw out an ACLU lawsuit aimed at allowing the use of non-Christian religious texts in courtroom oaths, saying the civil liberties group had no active case to argue.
Good post as the article further states.....
At issue is a state law that allows witnesses preparing to testify in court to take their oath either by laying a hand over a "Holy Scripture," by saying "so help me God" without the use of a religious book or by using no religious symbols.
That's the point that being lost in this debate. It's not about Muslims feeling uncomfortable swearing on the Bible; it's about furthering the cause of Islam.
After all the bogus hysteria about Koran desecration at Gitmo, the next step will be to have the book hermetically sealed and enshrined in courtrooms, with maybe some ritualistic rug-prayer thrown in with the oath.
Or, some of the thousands of Saudi-trained imams could be added to the court payroll as purveyors of the ravings of Mohammed.
Exaggerations perhaps, but an inch of our abandoned principles/customs soon becomes a mile of progress for Islam....and that really is the name of the game.
Or maybe a John Deere tractor repair manual.
It would mean just as much.
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