Posted on 12/06/2005 12:33:26 PM PST by George14
It has recently been publicized that a 20 percent tip is now appropriate because servers are usually only guaranteed $2.13 an hour and the tips have to be split. Let me explain something. It is the customer's sole right to determine whether a tip is given, the amount and who will be the recipient of his tip. Such rights are not only guaranteed by our constitution they are clearly explained in the Code of Federal Regulations. Customers may tip any amount they choose. Instead of a higher tip being appropriate, what is now actually appropriate is for the public to start questioning why they are being expected to tip more.
While it has been widely publicized that tip splitting and lowered wages are both creating a need for higher tip percentages, what is not being publicized is an explanation of what these business practices actually are and why they create a need for the public to tip more. You see in both cases, such practices equate to employers being allowed to take part the tips away from the employee to whom the customer has presented a tip. You see, tip splitting is the business practice whereby employers take part of the tipped employee's tips and give them to workers whom the customer had every right and ability to tip but didn't. The $2.13 an hour business practice which has been publicized is actually called a tip credit. The tip credit also allows businesses to take or credit part of their employee's tips for themselves. In both cases the public's tips are being taken by businesses owners. The problem is not that customers should be tipping more the problem is that business owners should not be utilizing their employee's tips for the business's interests.
The truth is, business owners are using the customer's tips which undeniably and indisputably are not intended for the business owner for the business's own interests. Such business practices are being allowed by our government even though such business practices are an illegal dominion over the customer's property. To put it simply, businesses are being allowed to steal the money customers present as tips. Now, the public is being expected to tip more because the workers are not receiving the financial benefits of the tips they have been presented.
What is needed is not a higher tip percentage but some educating of the public of what is actually happening to their tip. Businesses have lobbied our federal government and I believe have probably even paid off many of our judges so they can steal the financial benefits of the tips our public is tipping workers in the service industry. The stories you read on how the public is being expected to tip more are actually stories about how our country is allowing businesses owners an ability to blatantly steal from their workers. If the real issue was resolved there would be no issue.
Employers should be prohibited from using their employee's tips to establish a lower minimum wage for their tipped workers. Customers are not tipping so the business can lower it's payroll expenses and thus benefit itself to the customer's tip. Customers are not tipping so the business owner can decide who should share in their tip. Both these business practices are fraud on the public for they are clearly the misappropriations of the public's property. Because our public has sat back and done nothing as business owners misappropriate the public's tips to their own interests, there now exists an undue pressure on the public to tip more to make up for such criminal acts.
The reason I believe our public has sat back and done nothing as business owners reap the financial benefits of the tips presented to their workers is because the media has also been paid off to avoid informing the public of what is actually happening to their tip when the courts ignore the constitutional rights of the customer and when our federal government so blatantly misappropriates the public's tips. The courts have ruled that employers may share the customer's tip among employees whom the customer had every right to tip but didn't. The federal government has allowed businesses to benefit themselves to the customer's tip through the tip credit without the consent of the customer. Such acts by our federal government and courts are not only unconstitutional but criminal. The media is covering up such crimes by intentionally avoiding the issue and keeping the truth from the public.
The tipped employees of this nation need some help from the public on these issues. The truth of what is happening to the customer's tip is being withheld from the public so that employers can continue to steal our tips while the public is left to foot the bill.
Because we've got this customary system that evolved naturally over time, and this is codified in our laws. It seems to work out OK.
Employees paid to scale with no motivator would not be pleasant.
SD
When dining alone, I always tip in cash only. And I always put the tip into the waiter's or waitress's hand. Discreetly. I don't want that tip taxed, swiped or "shared."
Exactly doda, this is a socialist scam from the get go, where the elites make out like bandits and the working folks take it in the behind......Ironic isn't it, how socialist policy always works out that way?
It's not a "scam" it's a business practice. Are the employees slaves? I think not. If the busboys agree to work for these conditions, and it is legal, what is the beef? That you tip to impress the cute waitress, and she has to give some to the sweaty fellow?
SD
Just to bad that after you leave that waiter or waitress still has to put that tip you gave them in a pile to be split up among the tip share group.
Euroweenies don't tip and look down on Americans for doing so. Typically they just round up the bill, and that's it.
It's a questionable business practice sir. That is the very point of this thread.
Most people have NO IDEA what a tip share is and have NO CLUE that the one they gave money to is about to give up 3/4 of it. When more people DO know this they will tip less and your business will see less tips and then you will see less people willing to work at that business that are worth their salt.
You have every right to want to pay your labor 2.13 an hour and have your customers pay the rest of their wages. This is a path that takes your employees AND your customers for granted, so you better make your money and run....as it will not last for the long term.
BWAAA hahahahahaha Exactly my friend!
Absolutely and here is why. The health department says it HAS to be clean and they benefit it being done swiftly because they get to seat me before I get tired of waiting and go elsewhere. Artifical it is not.
Try posting my whole thought and responding to it, not picking part of a phrase out to respond to.
Yes, clean tables are an expected part of the service. So is table delivery in a restaurant that forbids you from picking up your food yourself. So why tip one class of employee and not the other?
Is there a logical reason?
As you notice many food places see you take your own food to the table and even see you fill your own cup. The meal doesn't cost you any less now does it? The booths still have to be clean Eh?
I certainly expect food to cost less in a place where I pick up my own food than in a place where it is brought to me. You don't?
why does it bother you if they all share in your gratuity?
Where to start??? I tip who I want to tip, others do not decide who my tip goes to. BIG difference there!!
Once you give it away, why are you so concerned where it goes next? Why doyou want to unilaterally re-write the employment agreement between the company and the various classes of service workers to suit your own ideas?
Is there a logical reason for this? Do you really ever go out of your way to tip a busboy? Would it tick you off if he than put this into a pool because those were the rules of his workplace?
Busboys and cooks and dishwashers are not paid 2.13 an hour, I know I wasn't, and I know my brother isn't today.
You seem to not be understanding the issue. The issue is that busboys are being re-defined into a lower-wage plus tips situation, they are being paid like waitresess and getting part of the tips.
Should we then tip extra knowing it's for 2 people? I say no. Should I get upset if my tip meant for one is spread out among two? No. I don't really care that much.
The real question here is why are cooks and busboys relying on the presentation of the waitress for their pay?
Why are waitresses and waiters relying on cooks and busboys for their pay? Maybe they are all part of the same team.
Tip share is a racket. It is a way for them to get you, the customer, to pay an even greater share of their overhead than youpay for the meal itself. Tip share will see the act of tipping fall off as people understand what happens to their tips.
I'm going to tip what I feel is appropriate. I am not going to pay double cause two people are sharing. I am also not going to penalize the workers because of the situation they are in. If you are some vehemently opposed to this idea, don't eat at place like that. I don't think most people are going to boycott tips as a protest against an employers practices. How does that help?
SD
Well, let's be fair then......maybe wait staff should also report to work in sloppy dirty clothes, unable to even communicate with customers.
My kid was told to wear a clean uniform, be presentable & polite to all customers........while she was FORCED to 'tip share' with the scuzzy, dirty, smart ass dishwasher, who was also paid 2.13 ph.
But hey, if it saves the EMPLOYERS money, who cares about what's HID in the kitchen.
This thread is ridiculous. How is it "questionable" to follow the law?
Most people have NO IDEA what a tip share is and have NO CLUE that the one they gave money to is about to give up 3/4 of it.
Most people don't really care. Unless they are trying to hit on the hot waitress. If the servers and busboys don't like the situation, I suppose they can find work elsewhere, can't they? And if the quality of worker left to work for low wage plus tips is so poor that the business suffers quality problems, I imagine the situation will change.
It's all about service. If the business can't deliver, it will fail.
Worrying about tips is not going to affect anything.
When more people DO know this they will tip less and your business will see less tips and then you will see less people willing to work at that business that are worth their salt.
Exactly. If the system doesn't work, it will correct itself. Isn't capitalism grand? If the quality of service decreases, tips will go down, resulting in worse employees, lowering the service, etc. If the employees do a good job, then all benefit.
What bothers me is this attitude that "these people are being 'screwed' by having to share tips, so I'm not going to tip them." I don't think most people think that way.
SD
Did your wife work for tips? I fail to see how this applies.
SD
Yeah, that will help.
My kid was told to wear a clean uniform, be presentable & polite to all customers........while she was FORCED to 'tip share' with the scuzzy, dirty, smart ass dishwasher, who was also paid 2.13 ph.
Did she try to serve the customers without clean dishes? How'd that go?
But hey, if it saves the EMPLOYERS money, who cares about what's HID in the kitchen.
It certainly saves employers and customers money.
SD
You think people working on a team, with cash bonuses on the line, are going to put up with one of the team members slacking off?
Forget the procapitalism stance. You were talking about team work and yes, people do put up with F'offs.
You want to claim i cherry picked then you back it up. I addressed what you asked me to.
Post what else you seem to think mattered that was part of that phrase!
Logically speaking, bringin my food is only part of a waitresses job. She deals with me directly. Does the cook? Does the busboy? Does the dishwasher? NOPE, see the difference there? Quite logical indeed.
Is a tip part of the cost of the food? You fail to see the difference don't you?????
"Once you give it away, why are you so concerned where it goes next?"
DID you really SAY that????? FFS
If I give a tip to a person I expect that person to get it. The game you are playing with your response to it will bring exactly what i already told you it would. LESS TIPPING which leads to less good people working for you. Ask Lone Star about tip share and see what happened to them when they did it here.....notice they no longer DO it here!
PEOPLE ought to KNOW the 'rules of the workplace' eh? Or do you seek to deceive them about where their tips go and how they are distributed. Ever seen a sign alerting the public as to a tipshare program? JEE I WONDER WHY the anser to that question is NO!?????????!!!!!
"You seem to not be understanding the issue. The issue is that busboys are being re-defined into a lower-wage plus tips situation, they are being paid like waitresess and getting part of the tips"
The busboys aren't paid any higher than before in take home pay, the waittresses ARE however taking home LESS, all the while employers pay less in wages as a cost of overhead from the price paid for the meal. Spin it any way you like but that is the fact about tipshare.
YOU may not care where your tip goes, you should have that choice. I should have that same choice right? Or is that something i say that you oppose also?
You have every right to tip as you feel appropriate. SO DO I! I feel tipshare is bogus and so do most people when they take a look at it. I ought to know when my tip is going to other people than who I give it to.
People will refuse to tip when they understand the person they are tipping doesn;t get to keep what they gave them. If you cannot see that, then I cannot help you. Either that or you think all or most people could care less where their money goes. Do you really think people do not care where their money goes as a general rule? That most people will not care one way or the other when they find out others are getting the money they GAVE to an individual? Do you REALLY think that about most people?
That's PERFECT, Tunehead54! Thank you so much. I will follow your advice to the letter.
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