[eleni121]

A society without the death penalty is opening itself up for vigilanteeism and personal revenge.

[hsalaw]

"Dead, he's a martyr"

I disagree. Dead, he's yesterday's news and soon forgotten. And good riddance.

[eeriegeno]

THE celebrity rush to save the life of convicted murderer and gang founder Tookie Williams may be the best argument yet for eliminating the death penalty. Dead, he's a martyr; alive and confined for life, he's just another nobody.

Au contrare....

The courts of law have spoken and have concluded that this animal is not deserving of life. Who the hell do the 'celebrities' think they are to oppose our court system? BTW, the 'ditch diggers union' are in favor of carrying out Tooskie's execution?

Dead, Tookie may be a martyr but he will be, in fact, dead as the court has ordered. If he is granted clemency as the result of these goofy 'celebrities', he will be alive, a living martyr, available for escape, possible parole, and a trophy for the celebrities.

IMHO, the only thing that will be wrong with his execution in 10 days is that one of the family members of any of his victims will not get a chance to flip the switch.

Flex those muscles Tookie, I believe that will impress your Maker.......

[quinhon6869]

These arguments against the death penalty are that mistakes will be made and the state cannot put someone to death who is innocent without us all falling into complete despair. And essentially that the death penalty is an anachronistic barbarism and that as an evolved and enlightened society, we should progress to more humane treatment of those who torture, rape and murder children, along with those who order and/or carry out executions, commit mass murder, rob and then murder, and those who murder as part of an organized criminal activity or act of terrorism. There are a number of secondary arguments around the theme that the death penalty cannot be fairly applied [race, class, etc]. Those arguments are okay, and you can add to it those who denounce capital punishment as state sanctioned murder. Some also take exception with the "free Mumia" crowd for the singularity of their cause when it comes to Tookie, suggesting that his celebrity status should not allow him to avoid the death penalty while all the others who have no such support must die.

In our democratic system, the majority of voters have decided that they disagree with these assumptions. We [those of us in the majority] want the death penalty for a variety of reasonable assumptions that we can also make. People who are executed pose no further threat to society [both those incarcerated and those guarding them] as well as the rest of us on the outside, should they escape or, as might be argued in the case of gang-leaders, terrorists and mobsters, continue to conduct and direct organized criminal activity from within the prison system. The death penalty can also help dissipate our [the majority] collective rage at the most heinous of crimes committed against us. There is also the argument that the death penalty provides closure for the victims family and friends. They no longer have to live with the ever-present reality that the individual who has caused them such grief is enjoying [despite their incarceration] visits with family, entertainment [like reading a novel or watching a TV program], and possibly gratifying themselves with memories of their crimes. If you question this last assumption, I would willingly accept clemency when it was the wish of the family of the victim[s].

I won't use the argument of deterrence that the death penalty presents. Liberals have effectively diminished the deterrent value of the death penalty by imposing a system of endless appeals and delays that have impeded the deterrent impact that swift and sure implementation would most certainly deliver. In many ways those who share anti-death penalty assumptions have reduced the death penalty process to a seemingly never-ending Kabuki of lawyers, appeals, retrials, stays and injunctions. And now, when all these fail we have celebrities appealing for clemency.

[freekitty]

Let him die.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I'd just love to hear her if one of her family members were killed by Tookie.

I know what we should do. Line up all the surviving relatives, and let the motherf*cker loose.

[Brilliant]

Make him a martyr. Let him represent the Hollywood mindset.

[Slings and Arrows]

Ms. Parker is wrong. Alive, he's a danger to other inmates, guards, and anyone who gets in his way if he tries to escape - he knows he'll be spending the rest of his life in prison, and has no reason not to kill. Dead, he's only a danger to worms who get sick eating his foul carcass.*

[*No worms were harmed in the making of this rant.]

[IronJack]

Dead, he's a martyr; alive and confined for life, he's just another nobody.

No. Dead, he's a fading memory. Alive and confined for life, he's only confined until the same reprobates who saved him from execution can convince some moron judge that he should be released. ALive, he's still wasting valuable air and justice is still not served. Alive, he's an insult to every Californian who demanded a death penalty be made into law.

This piece of garbage should die; no amount of inverse reasoning or clever counter-argument should change that.

[TheDon]

One major problem with life imprisonment is that the killer is able to kill again. Execution is the only way to protect society.

[RunningWolf]

I saw those pictures they were worse than horrible beyond comprehension.

He is not a martyr in any sense, these celebrities make a mockery of themselves.

Fortunately, hollywood or the press seems to have little influence on death penalties now days (by the time it gets to this stage).

At the risk of being flamed however, I do not rejoice in the tragedy (note word used) of the victim or the perp. Yes justice must be served and ultimately it always is.

Wolf

[Dustbunny]

Tookie is not innocent. He is a brutal sadistic murderer that should have been executed 20 years ago.

[LK44-40]

I have no wish to further elevate Williams in the public eye, but the circus surrounding his Dec. 13 execution date forces reflection.

I decline to yield one inch to "the circus." He should have been executed many years ago. The Susan Sarandon types do everything they can to throw sand into the machinery of justice and then, in the end, argue that it has taken so long and been so expensive and the perp, meanwhile, has found Jesus so we should just call it all off. I am unmoved.

I admit that I am, though, troubled at wrongful convictions, although not sufficiently to still the hand of justice. One way I manage this problem in my own mind is to reflect that most wrongful convictions (I have no data...I admit) are probably against chronic felons. Their history helps (legally or illegally) to put them in the fix that they are in. I just consider it a secondary consequence of being criminal scum that you are exposed to some jeopardy of taking an occasional fall that, strictly speaking, you don't deserve. This is an injustice that does not in the least disturb my slumbers.

[starbase]

["It is whether the government should be in the business of executing people convicted of murder knowing to a certainty that some of them are innocent."]

This hyper-educated nonsense makes me sick. First of all, what's with this cheesy phrase "in the business of"? No one is making a business out of this, and to lower things to that childish level of expression is on par with the expression "take a chill pill". Cute, suburban, and unrelated to reality.

Secondly is that "knowing to a certainty" bit. Is he claiming that the authorities "know" the accused is innocent? If so, MAKE THE CLAIM!! But the closest thing to saying they know, of course, is to say not that they know, but that they "know to a certainty", whatever that means.

You know, I've really been torn about the death penalty recently. The argument that gives me trouble is that, as long as we have the capability to lock them away for the rest of their lives where they can't, and won't, kill anyone again, then why kill them?

I think, going forward, I'll support life in prison and no execution. The deterrent is the same, because out-of-the-picture is out-of-the-picture.

But for now the law is death, so I say carry out the law and kill him.

[Ciexyz]

Any indications on how Arnold is leaning on the clemency issue?

[dennisw]

The left will try to keep the most heinous killers away from the electric chair and the lethal injection. They demand endless appeals and evidence. Even one innocent man executed is too much.

This is in stark contrast to how they treat abortion. Killing of the innocent unborn is a right that should never be questioned according to them. No fetus, even one 8 months old, is innocent.

[Cinnamon Girl]

Somehow people in prison seem to come up for parole hearings every once in a while, and even get let out from time to time. Tookey has lived 25 years longer than the innocent people he murdered. Allowing him to continue writing books and doing interviews disrespects the lives of those he took away.

[WasDougsLamb]

Dead, he's a martyr; alive and confined for life, he's just another nobody ----Dead , he is a dead murderer., alive and confined for life, he is a murderer who is still alive.

[DouglasKC]

That certainty has been established by DNA tests showing that many death row inmates did not commit the crimes for which they were convicted. Case closed.

DNA evidence isn't always certain. I saw a show on the Discovery channel recently about people who essentially carry around two separate sets of DNA. Some cells have one type, some cells another. One went through a long legal battle because a child that she delivered could not be legally proven as her child because it wasn't a DNA match.

[daviscupper]

I don't buy her argument that the State run by people has to be infallible. We as a society take risks all the time. We know 50,000 people a year will die driving their cars. We implicitly assume the convenience of driving cars is worth at least 50,000 lives. Carrying out the death penalty to murders convicted by a jury of their peers is safeguard enough. Yes, some innocent person may die and that is tragic; however, I think it will be very rare and certainly more rare than the number of innocent people who die on the freeway every year.

It is time to recall exactly what Tookie did to get sentenced to death.

In 1979 "Tookie" murdered four innocent, defenseless people with a sawed-off shotgun at point blank range. During his first murder he ordered a 7-eleven store clerk into the back room and told him to "lie face down on the floor you mother----er." He then walked over to this young man and shot him in the back at contact range with the shotgun. The rush of blood into the victims lungs and throat made a horrible gurgling sound and the man struggled to breathe. "Tookie" then fired another killing round into the man's back -- again at contact range. Later that evening he bragged about the murder and laughed while recalling the agony, gurgling sounds and the desperate gasping of the victim.

Eleven days later "Tookie" broke into a small motel at 5:30 in the morning. When confronted by the owner he shot the man point blank in the face with the same shotgun. He broke into the owners' bedroom and shot and murdered his wife at point blank range with the shotgun. When their daughter came running to their rescue he shot and brutally killed their only daughter with the same powerful shotgun. Then he calmly raided the cash register and drove away with a hundred dollars -- the only receipts for the evening.

"Tookie" was convicted of murder and sentenced to death for these wanton, brutal acts of murder. During the sentencing phase of his trial he looked over to the jury and mouthed "I will get everyone of you mother----ers."

This heroic jury did not flinch. They at great personal risk to themselves and their families meted out a "guilty" verdict even though the leader of the most notorious gang in America with thousands of gang members to do his bidding threatened to ..."get everyone of you mother----ers."

Tookie Williams has never been remorseful, he has never apologized to the families of his victims, he refuses to accept responsibility for his actions. He still claims to be an innocent man, framed and convicted by an all white jury. This is a blatant lie that Tookie Williams repeated last week on the MSNBC Rita Crosby interview. (There was a black and a latino on the jury.) The jury members still live in fear of this wanton, unrepentant monster. It is time for this man to quit threatening society.

Tookie is not a victim. The real victims are like that freckled-face young man, with a ready smile for everyone, working at that 7-eleven store when Tookie Williams walked in 26 years ago. Tookie Williams smote the life out of that young man and his mother has been gasping for closure ever since. She has been horribly injured, her pain is too great to bear, the cuts to her heart are too deep, and her wounds will never heal.