Posted on 12/01/2005 8:58:07 AM PST by tgambill
Kosovo: Clinton 'lied, people died'?
________________________________________ Posted: December 1, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2005 Laurence A. Elder The White House – finally – began pushing back against irresponsible charges that Bush "lied" to the American people in making the case for war.
The garrulous Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., made many "Bush lied" accusations: "There was no imminent threat. This was made up in Texas, announced in January [2003] to the Republican leadership that war was going to take place and was going to be good politically. This whole thing was a fraud." And Kennedy later intoned on the Senate floor, "Before the war, week after week after week after week, we were told lie after lie after lie after lie."
Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., said, "... [T]he administration intentionally misled the country into war." Anti-war protester Cindy Sheehan, speaking to the president in a TV ad, said, "You were wrong about the weapons of mass destruction. You were wrong about the link between Iraq and al-Qaida. You lied to us, and because of your lies, my son died." Question: If Bush "lied," did former President Clinton "lie" about Kosovo?
Clinton, in a March 24, 1999, Oval Office broadcast, explained his military action in Kosovo: We act to prevent a wider war, to defuse a powder keg at the heart of Europe, that has exploded twice before in this century with catastrophic results ... By acting now, we are upholding our values, protecting our interests and advancing the cause of peace ... Ending this tragedy is a moral imperative. It is also important to America's national interests ... Do our interests in Kosovo justify the dangers to our armed forces? ...
I am convinced that the dangers of acting are far outweighed by the dangers of not acting – dangerous to defenseless people and to our national interests ... I have a responsibility as president to deal with problems such as this before they do permanent harm to our national interests. America has a responsibility to stand with our allies when they are trying to save innocent lives and preserve peace, freedom and stability in Europe. That is what we are doing in Kosovo.
The former president called Kosovo a humanitarian crisis. The New York Times, on April 19, 1999, wrote: In San Francisco on Thursday, President Clinton said that the Serbs had displaced 'over a million Kosovars' and had killed and raped 'thousands upon thousands of them.' From interviews that journalists and relief workers have conducted with scores of refugees from Kosovo, there is no reason to doubt him. But at this point it is also impossible to prove that he is correct.
Actor-activist Mike Farrell, who opposes the Iraq War, nevertheless supported military action in Kosovo, stating:
I am in favor of an intervention ... I was in Rwanda shortly after the slaughter there. I was infuriated then – and am now – that the international community did not step in ... I know that the escalation of violence and violations of human rights in Kosovo have been going on for some time ... I reluctantly find myself supporting the notion that something needed to be done and that it is appropriate for us to act, and if this is the only way, so be it.
But what about Clinton's assertion of the displacement of "over a million Kosovars"? According to USA Today on July 1, 1999:
Many of the figures used by the Clinton administration and NATO to describe the wartime plight of Albanians in Kosovo now appear greatly exaggerated as allied forces take control of the province ... Instead of 100,000 ethnic Albanian men feared murdered by rampaging Serbs, officials now estimate that about 10,000 were killed. But is the 10,000 number accurate? The Orange County Register, in a Nov. 22, 1999, editorial, said:
Months after the bombing has ceased, United Nations and European Union investigations have bolstered what critics had argued: NATO's estimates of Serbian genocide against the Kosovars were greatly overblown. Many observers now think the inflated numbers simply were part of the U.S.-led propaganda effort to build support for the war.
The latest evidence suggests that fewer than 3,000 Kosovars were murdered – horrifying, yes, but not many more than the number of Serbs who were killed by NATO bombing attacks on Yugoslavia, roughly estimated between 3,000 and 5,000 soldiers and civilians. Does this mean that Clinton "lied, people died"? The intelligence turned out to be wrong, very wrong. Something like this always warrants a serious examination of intelligence failures. But intelligence failures, bad intelligence or failing to properly analyze the intelligence is a far cry from accusing a commander in chief of deliberately and intentionally misleading the American people.
Can we, perhaps, now drop the "Bush lied" nonsense, and pursue the business of winning the war against Islamo-fascism? Perhaps?
lolol....that is the kicker..he didn't have one. We are still there. And freely giving money to the UN Grand Caymen accounts and organized crime. He planned on staying.....and still is. Innocent Albanians and Serbs were killed by the bombing which was a total failure as far as protecting friendly targets that posed no threat to anyone. In Iraq its totally different. Kosovo didn't have one suicide bomber, YET! It's coming shortly. They even have "Clinton Blvd", a main street in Pristina, the capital.
You are kidding right? It's been the area of conflict since 1999. My comments in both articles to follow.
this is one URL:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp? Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200509\SPE20050927a.html
http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=7754
WRONG....only a small percent of Albanians are non-Muslims. You had an Islamic Jihad in Bosnia back in 1994. I have the films of their training, their faces and documentation. Also, guess why there were Muhammmandans....in the Balkans. We picked them up in Afghanstan and dropped them in Bosnia. Worked very well for their plans......then they started there like they did in France. The Albanians are "luke warm" Muslim. However, you don't understand the mind power that the Immans have. A Belgium woman, non-Arab this week turned out to be a suicide bomber. This is the reality.
"And what, pray tell, was clinton's exit strategy?" Monica in the kitchen?
Sorry, but confirmed, there was one suicide bombing planned for Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo. It was stopped by very good work. I know this from rock solid sources. I was there for five years living in Gnjilane as a security chief for the OSCE. I also know that they had stinger missiles that was caught in time.
Of course he did. After all the Serbs were mostly Christian, what better reason to bomb the s__t out of them and then gloat over it?
This brings up another incident that the media totally ignored...which is ironic, since it had all the same elements that snarred Reagan in Iran-Contra. During the Bosnian conflict, there was evidence that Clinton's Pentagon formed an alliance with Islamic extremists to ship in arms from Iran and Turkey to help supply the Bosnian Muslims. This not only violated a UN arms embargo...it provided weapons to the very Jihadists we are fighting today. This was a very important story that was totally ignored. I think the Guardian still has the story from a source in the Netherlands government.
I was just trying to be sarcastic towards that KLA advocate, but failed to put that across.
Pakistanis bombed the London tube, and Iranians are no Arabs either.
This article has very little to do with being Pro-Serb. It's called let's quiet the crap on Bush by acknowledging that Clinton did the same thing and no one said a word.
If you want to rationalize the present administration's policies based on the preceding one's, knock yourself out. I prefer to judge each situation on its own merits and act accordingly.
We now have a direct attack against the U.S. and instead of critizing Bush we support him in wiping the vermin away from the door......our door!
Doesn't sound good for either the Canadians or the Mexicans. To which are you referring to, or is your front door somewhere different than mine?
marker
bump for later
"Didn't Slick put America on the side of radical muslims in Kosovo?"
indeed he put us on the side of albanian muslim terrorists.
"Listing the crimes of the KLA in no way exculpates Milosevic's actions, nor will it result in a reversal of our policy in Kosovo."
This is a true statement. However, it puts the situation in proper perspective. The American and Albanian leadership would have us to believe that they are the good guys and Milosevic was the only bad guy. The Serbian forces did some very bad things during this war. However, I believe in speaking the truth from both sides....Our role and policy will not change as that would undermine our whole policy a decade past. We are in a pickle...
The purpose was to tell people to quiet the crap about Bush lying, when in reality he has not lied about the Iraq war. It was a threat to the U.S. and Al Quida was meeting with the Iraq VP back in February 1998.
The door my friend was the attack on the WTC, Pentagon and the ones since 1983.
There is a story that is very near, and....dear to my heart. I shall share with you. It's actually touching in sort of a way.
Just before WWI, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the United States forces in the Philippines by Muslim Extremists. General Pershing captured 50 of these and had them tied to posts for execution. He then had his men bring two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, what was described in stories, very horrified terrorists. You see, Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are dirty animals. Some refuse to eat pork, while others won't even touch a pig, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating, or touching a pig, it's meat, its' blood, etc...is to be instantly barred from paradise....and all those virgins and doomed to hell. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad, no joke. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist bodies, and covered them in pig blood, entrails etc.... They then let the 50th man go, and for the next forty-two years, there was not a single Muslm extremist attack anywhere in the world. Got the idea...............this is the situation we are in right now.
By equating all K-Albanians and America with the actions of those members of the KLA who perpetrated crimes?
No. It just won't do - Slobodan Milosevic controlled and directed the machinery of the rump Yugoslavia. His policies were the de facto and de jure policies of the state he ruled. The same is not the case with the KLA members responsible for crimes in Kosovo and their relationship with Kosovar Albanians on the whole or to the United States of America.
Furthermore, we confronted Milosevic and Saddam for two very different sets of reasons, both of which are capable of standing on their own merits without reference to the other. Our case for invading Iraq ultimately rests with Saddam's refusal to account for his WMDs per the cease fire agreement which ended the Gulf War back in '91. Stop. End. No further rationalization necessary, regardless of whether the WMDs were found or not.
As to the Philippine anecdote, you're simply wrong about its deterrent value. Consider that Islam proscribes suicide - do you really think that it's going to be that much more difficult for an Imam who issues dispensations for suicide bombers to protect his follower's eternal souls against defilement by pig's blood? Let's just skip the sophomoric urban legend based solution approach to real world problems, m'kay?
You are way off course on this one, sorry. The Immam cannot over ride the Koran and generations of mind bending "Islam"......then say it's okay about pigs, pork or whatever. No way......You don't understand these people.
Yes, The KLA is supported totally by all K-Albanians even if they murder other Albanians in the name of the code. I lived in Kosovo for five years. It was my actual home. Their support is evidenced by the complete lack of a judicial system corrupt to the core. I saw it for five years and got a briefing from someone there that is disgusted with the system that has been created. We can associate Most all K-Albanians and Clinton's policy with the actions of the members of the KLA...why? we trained them using MPRI (look it up), and the SAS. Osama Bin Laden offered to give the assistance in 1997-1998. We interceeded. Fact of record. We have turned a blind eye to the murders of innocent Serbian men, women, children, during and since the end of the bombing. This has continued until NOW and is coninuing as of yesterday. I warned them as a Security Chief, that the internationals would be targets in 2004 or later....I was right. The internationals are now targets... The military is next.....the KIA is the KLA renamed. Their agenda is to expand to a Greater Albania. The action is to target, provoke, and play the blame game. Next will be southern Presevo, Western Macedonia, and Montenegro. Make a copy of this post and put it on your wall as you read the news between now and Spring.
Milosevic facilitated the sell of weapons to the KLA through the Mafia channels. The Mafia's work together very well not only with themselves but also with UNMIK officials. They also contributed to the Kerry Campaign to the tune of 500K. It was said by Holbrooke himself...I quote. Fact........So, Milosevic sold weapons to the KLA while operating forces against the Albanians in Kosovo. The only Mass graves they have found so far in Kosovo were Serbs....in May of 2005. The genocide was a lie as reported by inspectors......
Like I said, the WWI situation worked then, it will sure work now. You need to hear the story of the Frog and the Scorpion or the Swan and the Scorpion. Same ending.....it's their nature...can't change that.......You don't know these people. You will shortly however........I'm afraid. Remember what I said......
Racak is a fine example illustrating this statement.
I don't understand you, either - the fact that muslims are willing to committ suicide, regardless of whether it's prohibited in the Koran, is real.
Your Blackjack anecdote, on the other hand, is apocryphal - there's no evidence to support that it ever happened - "look it up", as you say.
And opposed to totally supporting the KLA, the Kosovar Albanian majority continue to support Ibrahim Rugova, with Rugova's party outpolling the KLA's candidates in Kosovo's elections.
But this is mere wasted detail - you're not who you're playing at being.
The only Mass graves they have found so far in Kosovo were Serbs
That's just stupid, and we've already got more than enough stupid on our Balkan threads.
Thanks for playing, "Security Chief".
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