Posted on 11/29/2005 8:03:37 PM PST by presidio9
The Vatican's tougher stand on homosexuality has divided American Catholics, with some welcoming it as a renewal of a Church plagued by scandal and others warning it would further alienate Catholic leaders.
Reflecting the divisions foreseen by some churchmen and scholars, a Catholic priest in Arizona announced his resignation because of "aggressive anti-gay positions" at the Vatican and the U.S. Church.
"I could no longer stay in that institution with any amount of integrity," Rev. Leonard Walker, 58, told the Arizona Republic after resigning from the Queen of Peace Church.
Apparently trying to defuse controversy over the eight-page Vatican document officially released on Tuesday, the president of the U.S. Roman Catholic Church, Bishop William S. Skylstad, said priests with "homosexual inclinations" can be good priests and should not fear discussing the issue.
Widespread leaks of the document last week already prompted criticism by gay rights advocates and liberal Catholics who said the Vatican failed to address deeper problems that led to the U.S. scandal over pedophile priests that erupted in 2002.
Some Catholic scholars said the real issue was the Church's fixation on celibacy. Daniel Maguire, a professor of moral theology at Marquette, a Jesuit university in Wisconsin, described celibacy as a "failed experiment in human control."
"It's highly unrealistic," he said.
PRIEST SCANDAL
Skylstad, who sets the tone for Vatican edicts in the United States, sought to calm angry Catholics by stressing that the first major ruling of Pope Benedict's reign would not exclude gay men who dedicated themselves to the priesthood.
"Deep respect should be shown to all people irrespective of sexual orientation," Skylstad told Reuters in an interview. "But a person has to be deeply committed," he added.
The Vatican statement said homosexuals should be barred from entering the priesthood along with men with "deep-seated" homosexual tendencies and those who support gay culture.
Homosexual tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before admission to the deaconate, a position a step short of priesthood, it said. Decisions on how to put this into practice rest in part with local Bishops, said Skylstad.
Brian Saint-Paul, senior editor of the Catholic journal CRISIS, described the document as "liberal" for allowing gays to continue to enter seminaries at all compared to a 1961 edict that barred all homosexuals outright but was poorly enforced.
"This leaves the door open for men with same-sex attractions...this is quite significant but it is one part of a larger approach to a renewal of the priesthood," he said.
He added that homosexuality and the pedophile priest scandal were clearly linked. His position is shared by other conservatives who point to a 2004 survey by John Jay College of Criminal Justice that found that, of 10,667 people abused by priests between 1950 and 2002, 81 percent were male.
The U.S-based Human Rights campaign called on U.S. Catholics to complain to their pastors and accused the Church of using homosexuals as scapegoats for the abuse scandals.
"We see it as more hypocrisy from an institution that is rapidly losing its credibility," said Marianne Duddy-Burke of gay and lesbian Catholic group Dignity USA in Boston.
In Arizona, Walker said he no longer felt comfortable "wearing the uniform" of priesthood. "It's like a Jew wearing a Nazi uniform," he said, declined to disclose his sexual orientation.
There are currently 64.8 million Catholics in the United States compared to 45.6 million in 1966 -- or 23 percent of the population compared to 24 percent in 1966, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate in Georgetown.
It's not the "Pope's" document. This document has been in development for five years.
And Bishop Skylstad is the President of the US Conference of Bishops. Not an inconsiderable voice, his.
You omit what the Church teaches regarding the just discrimination of those suffering the homosexual disorder? Said just discrimination is reitterated in the very document the Church just issued which we discuss here.
A complete meal is necessary -the cafeteria is closed...
II. Applications10. "Sexual orientation" does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc. in respect to non-discrimination. Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder (cf. "Letter," No. 3) and evokes moral concern.
11. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.
13. Including "homosexual orientation" among the considerations on the basis of which it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead to regarding homosexuality as a positive source of human rights, for example, in respect to so-called affirmative action or preferential treatment in hiring practices. This is all the more deleterious since there is no right to homosexuality (cf. No. 10) which therefore should not form the basis for judicial claims. The passage from the recognition of homosexuality as a factor on which basis it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead, if not automatically, to the legislative protection and promotion of homosexuality. A person's homosexuality would be invoked in opposition to alleged discrimination, and thus the exercise of rights would be defended precisely via the affirmation of the homosexual condition instead of in terms of a violation of basic human rights.
You may want to take a break for a while. Disrespect and personal attacks are indicative of an illegitimate position being touted without authentic reason as basis...
What part of "intrinsically disordered" isn't clear to you?
And why are you so obsessed with promoting the false notion that homosexuality is benign?
I freely disclose my position. Homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural, and immoral, and fortunately, those who want to change often can. It is destructive to the individual, and when society accepts and promotes it, destroys society. Homosexual behavior - and thus its promotion - is against the tenets of every monotheist religion on the face of the earth, and some that aren't.
That's my position. What's yours?
My mistake - the words are "objective disorder", not "intrinsic disorder".
Past my bedtime.
"Remember that lately there have been articles on FR about homosexual "priests" who claim they are celibate because they mean "unmarried", but they still indulge in homosexual acts. But they aren't married."
Try this article: http://www.kath.net/detail.php?id=12161
HOMOPRIESTS, HUMANAE VITAE, AND MASCULINITY
A comment by Dr. Gerard J. M. van den Aardweg, psychologist: "Candidates for the priesthood should be well-balanced heterosexual men"
"Important as the latter condition is, certainly in view of the reality that homo-feelings use to be considerably more obsessive and dominating one’s mind than normal hetero-feelings, there is a lot more to take into account. Homosexual longings are not isolated drives but symptoms of the person’s overall defective emotional growth to masculinity (femininity). This is not a subordinate mental area. Being a man (a woman) is part of the substance of the psychic nature, of one’s personal identity. It is from this essential dimension that the person relates to others: to adults of his own sex and of the opposite sex, and to children.
A man who cannot feel “one of the other men” or not relate to and understand women from his psychological manliness suffers a serious blockade in person-to-person communication. That cannot be satisfactorily compensated by being or behaving in a sympathetic or charming way, by behavioral roles of being understanding, compassionate, entertaining, or popular, by exhibiting sweet-boy-to-his-mother behavior with respect to women, and the like."
Ummm... The homo-fascinated American hierarchy (in many places, but not all) is dividing the American church. Rome, and the Vicar therein, is merely repeating existing (and long-standing) church doctrine.
The author is a moron with a mission.
Yeah. If that was the case, the abused children would have been female. Duh!
Miraculously, Reuters printed this:
a 2004 survey by John Jay College of Criminal Justice that found that, of 10,667 people abused by priests between 1950 and 2002, 81 percent were male.Brian Saint-Paul, senior editor of the Catholic journal CRISIS, described the document as "liberal" for allowing gays to continue to enter seminaries at all
I think Brian overstates his case. The document requires men to have overcome their same-sex attraction three years prior to entering the diaconate.
As well as heterosexual men, statistically speaking?
it stands to reason that the Church will continue to allow homosexuals into seminaries.
It's impossible to prevent closeted homosexuals from entering seminaries. The important point is that the Church does not want to accept homosexuals into the priesthood, nor those who support the "gay rights" agenda.
The document succeeds in warning bishops to eliminate the blatant, the flamboyant, the gay advocates.
The document also tells homosexual men that they have a responsibility not to attempt to enter the priesthood.
Worldwide, the number of priests is beginning to head up.
And this document should only serve to increase U.S. numbers. Most orthodox young men do not want to be perceived as homosexuals.
What? This?
Homosexual tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before admission to the deaconate, a position a step short of priesthood, it said. Decisions on how to put this into practice rest in part with local Bishops, said Skylstad.
The Catholic church would be happy to have you.
Right on. Even so, the cavillers will cavil.
Where did Our Lord say to ordain sodomites and those who harm children? Where did He say to ordain those who EMBRACE sin by endorsing the sodomite lifestyle?
Thank you. It would be cool to go to Mass at 5:00pm on Saturday but the family is, as I, in love with our Parrish and our Rector and can't leave.
Golden hand cuffs so to speak.
"And Bishop Skylstad is the President of the US Conference of Bishops. Not an inconsiderable voice, his."
If you support sodomites in the priesthood, Bill is a giant. If you want orthodoxy, well he is bankrupt. Ask H.E. why Fr. Marier is still in charge of a Catholic school in spite of the convictions for sex crimes and the sworn affadavits of his housekeeper regarding his possesion of child porn. To cite Bill as a "considerable voice" betrays either a pro-sodomite bias or deliberate ignorance or both.
It's SirKit's brother who is the priest, but I get along better with him than I do with some of my own brothers. When we go on family vacations, he always goes along, if he can get away, and we really enjoy his company. He has a habit of calling us VEY late in the evenings, after he's had a day of wrestling alligators, and it's a time for him to vent. We don't mind; we know he needs that.
When our daughter and I went to Japan this past summer, we ended up at Mass that was said totally in Japanese. Even though I did not understand the language (she did), I knew what was happening, and when, so I could follow the Mass. It was very interesting, and quite lovely.
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