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2nd KU class denies status of science to design theory
Lawrence Journal-World ^ | Sunday, November 27, 2005 | Sophia Maines

Posted on 11/28/2005 6:54:46 AM PST by Right Wing Professor

Intelligent design — already the planned subject of a controversial Kansas University seminar this spring — will make its way into a second KU classroom in the fall, this time labeled as a “pseudoscience.”

In addition to intelligent design, the class Archaeological Myths and Realities will cover such topics as UFOs, crop circles, extrasensory perception and the ancient pyramids.

John Hoopes, associate professor of anthropology, said the course focused on critical thinking and taught how to differentiate science and “pseudoscience.” Intelligent design belongs in the second category, he said, because it cannot be tested and proven false.

“I think this is very important for students to be articulate about — they need to be able to define and recognize pseudoscience,” Hoopes said.

News of the new class provided fresh fuel to conservatives already angered that KU planned to offer a religious studies class this spring on intelligent design as “mythology.”

“The two areas that KU is trying to box this issue into are completely inappropriate,” said Brian Sandefur, a mechanical engineer in Lawrence who has been a vocal proponent of intelligent design.

Intelligent design is the idea that life is too complex to have evolved without a “designer,” presumably a god or other supernatural being. That concept is at the heart of Kansas’ new public school science standards — greatly ridiculed by the mainstream science community but lauded by religious conservatives — that critique the theory of evolution.

Hoopes said his class would be a version of another course, titled Fantastic Archaeology, which he helped develop as a graduate student at Harvard University.

The course will look at the myths people have created to explain mysterious occurrences, such as crop circles, which some speculate were caused by extraterrestrials.

The course will explore how myth can be created to negative effects, as in the case of the “myth of the moundbuilders.” In early American history, some people believed the earthen mounds found primarily in the area of the Ohio and Mississippi river valleys were the works of an ancient civilization destroyed by American Indians. The myth contributed to the Indian Removal Act of 1830, which relocated American Indians east of the Mississippi to lands in the west, Hoopes said.

“It was that popular explanation that then became a cause for genocide,” Hoopes said.

That example shows the need to identify pseudoscience, he said.

“What I’m trying to do is deal with pseudoscience regardless of where it’s coming from,” he said.

But Sandefur said intelligent design was rooted in chemistry and molecular biology, not religion, and it should be discussed in science courses.

“The way KU is addressing it I think is completely inadequate,” he said.

Hoopes said he hoped his class stirs controversy. He said students liked to discuss topics that are current and relevant to their lives.

“Controversy makes people think,” he said. “The more controversy, the stronger the course is.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evofreaks; evolution; highereducation; idiocy; ignoranceisstrength; ku; pseudoscience; science; scienceeducation
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To: lonestar67
So according to your idiosyncratic definition, irreducible complexity is some kind of process that involves "establishing an array of complex causes that cannot be reduced to chance?"

Does anyone else share this view, or are you plowing a brand new furrow in the field of ID?

"I am unsurprised to find that censored books are popular.

And I am unsurprised to find that you have an idiosyncratic definition of censorship as well.

161 posted on 11/28/2005 11:07:52 AM PST by atlaw
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Clown parade placemarker.


162 posted on 11/28/2005 11:08:45 AM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

You're right. It's the will of the people behind ID. It was the evil liberal courts that gave evo its foothold. :)


163 posted on 11/28/2005 11:09:13 AM PST by jjmcgo
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To: Irish Queen
If they come here to ignore people, why can't the evos get their own forum? Or at least get a chat room, somewhere?

Sometime do some search histories on these freaks that come to FR only to issue their Darwin Altar Calls. Come to Darwin, Just As I Am, And I'll Keep Piling On the Evo Spam...

You can go back months and months, and maybe find a handful of posts except their obsession with evolution and all the folks who Won't Believe.

Sometimes I wonder if they're all the same person--

164 posted on 11/28/2005 11:10:20 AM PST by Mamzelle (.)
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To: lonestar67
Darwinian fundamentalists. Please read Thomas Kuhn's book on Scientific Revolutions.

Read it long time ago. So?

He was talking about scientific revolutions, not CS or ID. Neither has any science.

165 posted on 11/28/2005 11:11:04 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Mamzelle

I guarantee you, we're not all the same person.


166 posted on 11/28/2005 11:11:23 AM PST by blowfish
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To: PatrickHenry
They have to. Astronomy and geology are consistent with an earth that is billions of years old. Physics is consistent with the methods of radiometric dating for fossils and rock strata. Organic chemistry is consistent with the structure of DNA that supports common descent. It all fits together. To deny evolution is to deny all the evidence from all of science that supports the theory.

Creationists are not only anti science, but when you pin them down, many are openly anti-reason. This isn't good for conservatism.

As I've said before, I am one creationist/ID'er who has no problem with science or evolution. I don't believe in evolution per se, but I can't deny that at least some of it is true.

Since my belief is more faith-based than anything, I can't get into a scientific argument about it. I can respect yours and others' beliefs while still keeping my own.

I agree that when we become anti-reason, then that becomes dangerous. It's why I like to take a low-key, objective, and honest approach to things and maybe learn something in the process from others like yourself.

And as a Christian, I am more concerned with how well I am doing in THIS life and the future, not some ancient ancestory, whomever that was.

Saying that though, I love to see these debates. They are too dang entertaining and too addictive.

167 posted on 11/28/2005 11:11:29 AM PST by moog
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To: Mamzelle

Speaking of obsessions, isn't there an astronaut thread going somewhere that you should be attending to?


168 posted on 11/28/2005 11:12:23 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Senator Bedfellow

astronaut thread going somewhere

Where where????


169 posted on 11/28/2005 11:15:06 AM PST by moog
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To: moog
I don't share your beliefs but I respect your right to believe and worship as you choose. The irony is that I am an atheist who spends a lot his of time responding to unthinking attacks on Christians (and Christianity) from smug, condescending idiots who don't understand its value or depth. The Enlightenment represented the secularization of Judaeo-Christian moral values. Without the moral framework provided by the church, Western Civilization may be headed for trouble, but for me, that doesn't make religion true.
170 posted on 11/28/2005 11:16:38 AM PST by rootkidslim (... got the Sony rootkit on your Wintel box? You can thank Sen. Hatch!)
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To: blowfish
Check the histories, the similarities of reply. Do a little investigation. If you've ever been a teacher who graded essays, you start to pick up on the repitition and "talking points"--this is a team of juveniles at work in FR who care little to nothing about conservatism. FR is just a place for them to find a reliable supply of evo-doubters to mock.

What's really Icky is when they join up in a thread to snarl about fellow FR posters and high-five their group-grope wittiness. eeew. "They're so stupid. Aren't they stupid, Beevis? Yeah, Darwinhead, heheheh, they're just really...stupid. And ignorant."

171 posted on 11/28/2005 11:17:07 AM PST by Mamzelle (.)
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To: jjmcgo
"You're right. It's the will of the people behind ID. It was the evil liberal courts that gave evo its foothold. :)"

Science isn't decided by polls; I'll stick with the evidence. It was the preponderance of evidence that gave evolution it's position as one of the best supported sciences.

Nice of you to completely twist my words, btw. :)
172 posted on 11/28/2005 11:17:17 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Welcome to FR, Bedfellow. How come you're so new and you know my habits? You're not a phoney, are you? Or a fraud? Or a fake?

But if you've got a thread for the Fanboys, show me.

173 posted on 11/28/2005 11:18:46 AM PST by Mamzelle (.)
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To: moog; rootkidslim
Races are subspecies.

The current races are most certainly not subspecies. You have just demonstrated that you have zero knowledge of biology. Variation within races is greater than variation between races, which means they're not subspecies.

Humans ourselves are the last surviving subspecies of the species Homo sapiens -- which also at one point included Archaic Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens idaltu , Homo heidelbergensis, Neandertals, and, quite possibly, H. erectus/ergaster.

174 posted on 11/28/2005 11:19:03 AM PST by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: Mamzelle
You have some very good points there. I called the poster who shall not be named "Silly Boy" because his little list is such a childish way to handle a disagreement.

It's as if he's a four old with his fingers stuck in his ears declaring, "No Mommy, I don't hear you!"

Like you, I often check the histories of these Johnny-one-note posters. Some of them are quite humorous.

175 posted on 11/28/2005 11:19:04 AM PST by Irish Queen
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To: Mamzelle

"Welcome to FR, Bedfellow. How come you're so new and you know my habits?"

You're not that difficult to figure out.


176 posted on 11/28/2005 11:19:44 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: moog
Since my belief is more faith-based than anything, I can't get into a scientific argument about it.

We have nothing to argue about.

177 posted on 11/28/2005 11:20:56 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Expect no response if you're a troll, lunatic, dotard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Yeah, and I'll bet you play New Age.


178 posted on 11/28/2005 11:21:34 AM PST by Mamzelle (.)
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To: Mamzelle
You can go back months and months, and maybe find a handful of posts except their obsession with evolution and all the folks who Won't Believe. Sometimes I wonder if they're all the same person--

It's a vast diabolical conspiracy. While we're distracting you online with FR, our minions are poisoning the minds of your children.

179 posted on 11/28/2005 11:21:45 AM PST by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: lonestar67
In the book you will discover that science is consensus driven. All initial contrary theses are dismissed as "pseudo science." I do not know if ID is correct. I do know that science is well served by open and fair debate.

ID is thousands of years old and thus far is batting zero.

180 posted on 11/28/2005 11:21:45 AM PST by Thatcherite (F--ked in the afterlife, bullying feminized androgenous automaton euro-weenie blackguard)
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