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Bush visit [Tucson] highlights GOP rifts on border
The Arizona Daily Star ^ | 11.27.2005 | Mitch Tobin

Posted on 11/27/2005 6:17:30 AM PST by Borax Queen

Guest-worker plan to top Monday agenda

Hoping to straddle a fracture in the Republican Party, President Bush is due in Tucson on Monday to promote his border and immigration policies.

The 2:40 p.m. speech at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base is the president's only scheduled stop here.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff are expected to appear with the president at D-M.

With the backing of businesses who need foreign employees, Bush is pushing a guest-worker program that would let undocumented workers obtain three-year work visas. Workers could extend that for another three years, but would then have to return to their home countries for a year to apply for a new work permit.

"Our Border Patrol and immigration agents are doing a fine job, but we still have a problem," Bush said in his Oct. 22 radio address.

"If an employer has a job that no American is willing to take, we need to find a way to fill that demand by matching willing employers with willing workers from foreign countries on a temporary and legal basis."

The proposal has alienated many conservative Republicans who feel it gives amnesty to people who have entered the country illegally.

There are an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.

Competing guest-worker proposals have been introduced in Congress, which is expected to take up the contentious issue early next year:

- Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., support legislation that would allow illegal border crossers to work in the United States for up to six years.

- Sens. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., and John Cornyn, R-Texas, are backing a plan that would force undocumented workers to first return to their home country to apply for a guest worker permit.

- Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., wants to grant legal status to undocumented workers who have paid taxes and lived in the United States for five years if they pass security checks, pay a $2,000 fine and demonstrate English proficiency.

Rank-and-file Republicans may be less divided on the immigration issue than GOP politicians in Washington, D.C.

An October poll of 807 likely Republican voters found 72 percent supported a plan with increased border security, tougher penalties on employers who hire illegal workers and a temporary worker program in which applicants could gain citizenship if they live crime-free, learn English and pay taxes. GOP pollster Ed Goeas conducted the national survey.

Bush signed a spending bill for Homeland Security last month that includes funding for 1,000 new Border Patrol agents and a 10 percent increase in the holding capacity of detention facilities for border crossers.

Earlier this month, Chertoff unveiled Homeland Security's Secure Border Initiative, which will add 100 deportation officers, 250 criminal investigators and 400 immigration enforcement agents to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

The initiative also seeks to eliminate the department's policy of releasing border crossers with a promise to appear in court. Most of these entrants never show up for hearings under the so-called "catch and release" policy.

Tune in to see Bush on TV

-Tucsonans who want to see President Bush during his visit to town Monday will have to turn on their televisions.

Bush's speech at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base will not be open to the public.

"He's not leaving the base, so nothing will be affected as far as road closures," said Officer Lisa Peasley, a Tucson Police Department spokeswoman.

KVOA-TV Channel 4 and KGUN-TV Channel 9 plan to carry Bush's 2:40 p.m. speech live.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: 109th; aliens; amnesty; border; bush; gop; illegalaliens; immigrantlist; immigration; impeachthemall; issues; openborders; politics; presidentbush; willingemployers; willingworkers
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To: joeystoy

Hey these illegals aren't picking grapes anymore. They are taking construction jobs. Framing, roofing, plumbing and yes even electrical. They are doing it for far less than an American worker can afford to do it for. They will live three families to a home to accomplish this. They are taking what once used to be good paying American jobs and converting them to wages fit for the parasites that are coming up and taking them. How does an honest contractor compete with the bastard who hires these illegal immigrants. Work hard and cheap with muscles flexin or you'll be replaced by an illegal Mezican.


101 posted on 11/27/2005 9:06:11 AM PST by Sterco
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To: Borax Queen

Time to impeach this clown.


102 posted on 11/27/2005 9:06:16 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Impeach them all, starting at the top.)
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To: staytrue
The minimum wage act is the ultimate in market manipulation.

On this we agree, and on scrapping the IRS. I am against having a minimum wage in theory. I do not know if the current one is acting as a problem currently, if wages aren't high enough to enduce doemestic workers to work.

Or Artificially decreasing the labor market by barring willing workers from mexico could also be called market manipulation.

One could if they reject the notion of the nation state. I do not.

103 posted on 11/27/2005 9:08:55 AM PST by NeoCaveman (what part of illegal don't they understand)
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To: Dane
"Actually the govt. does that, I'm for getting out of good businesses way, and not put more restrictions on them as the democrats and also it seems you want to do."

Dane, please come up with an argument that can be defended, ok?


Nice try.

Since when is obeying the Constitution of the United States a "business restriction"?

Let's do away with ALL restrictions then, shall we?

Why are there silly banking "restrictions" that prevent me from going down to your bank and making an undocumented withdrawal out of YOUR personal account?

Your faux argument against "restrictions" has no weight at all.
104 posted on 11/27/2005 9:09:30 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Sterco
"Hey these illegals aren't picking grapes anymore. They are taking construction jobs. Framing, roofing, plumbing and yes even electrical. They are doing it for far less than an American worker can afford to do it for. They will live three families to a home to accomplish this. They are taking what once used to be good paying American jobs and converting them to wages fit for the parasites that are coming up and taking them. How does an honest contractor compete with the bastard who hires these illegal immigrants. Work hard and cheap with muscles flexin or you'll be replaced by an illegal Mezican."

Thanks, at least someone "gets it" on this thread.

Legit business owners are being driven out of business. There choices are to go belly up....or become scumbags like their illegit competitors.

Nice choice there, hugh?
105 posted on 11/27/2005 9:11:46 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Dane
I understand completely, you are not for cutting welfare benfits which started this whole mess and wish to have your animus thrown on those evil businesses.

I note that you have refuted none of my points, but instead have resorted to the Straw Man.

Might I encourage you to either refute those factual reasons I provided, or to meekly acknowledge that you now understand why it is the objection to the illegal hiring business model?

106 posted on 11/27/2005 9:15:50 AM PST by Plutarch
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To: Plutarch
correction:

Might I encourage you to either refute those factual reasons I provided, or to meekly acknowledge that you now understand the objection to the illegal hiring business model?

107 posted on 11/27/2005 9:17:08 AM PST by Plutarch
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To: joeystoy
I wrote a speech for an auto executive recently about the CURRENT shortage of dealer service technicians which stands at 100,000.

Well GM has 30,000 people they no longer need, who have related skills. Not to mention all their kids who once hoped to get jobs at the plants. Do you really think those sneaking across the border have an mechanical experience?

As for the potatoes, you don't have a food processor? Odd....

108 posted on 11/27/2005 9:19:00 AM PST by NeoCaveman (what part of illegal don't they understand)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; A CA Guy; ...

ping


109 posted on 11/27/2005 9:20:45 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: Itzlzha; Dane
Game...set...match Dane. Your witless prattling has been shown to be without merit OR basis. You and your ilk are nothing but gutless traitors undermining the US economy and the States abilities to combat crime and terrorism and reduce the unbearable tax-burden that American CITIZENS are FORCED to bear due to OBL MORONS that are more concerned about THEIR money in THEIR pocket than the rest of us!

There you go, using logic and reason on Dane.

I am waiting for the post about Buchanan.

110 posted on 11/27/2005 9:22:11 AM PST by raybbr
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To: janetgreen
He'll also be talking to a captive audience who won't ask any embarassing questions!

Can't wait to read the rah! rah!'s that will be forthcoming from the Bushbots about this speech.

111 posted on 11/27/2005 9:24:35 AM PST by raybbr
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To: joeystoy
I wrote a speech for an auto executive recentlty...

potato peeling (I can't wait to see the automated potato peeler/slicer/dicer at Kevin's Coffee Shop)... etc., etc., etc.

Did he laugh when he got to the part about the potato "peeler"?

112 posted on 11/27/2005 9:28:55 AM PST by raybbr
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To: Sterco

"Hey these illegals aren't picking grapes anymore. They are taking construction jobs. Framing, roofing, plumbing and yes even electrical. They are doing it for far less than an American worker can afford to do it for. They will live three families to a home to accomplish this. They are taking what once used to be good paying American jobs and converting them to wages fit for the parasites that are coming up and taking them. How does an honest contractor compete with the bastard who hires these illegal immigrants. Work hard and cheap with muscles flexin or you'll be replaced by an illegal Mezican."

The Gospel truth!



113 posted on 11/27/2005 9:55:25 AM PST by calrighty (. Troops BTTT)
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To: staytrue
***The Ohio State University just opened it's new gym built with prevailing wage all union, all American, all citizen labor at a cost of 120 million. It is 2 months old and the lower level gym housing 4 basket ball courts has been closed due to a water leak and they are now replacing the floor. The showers have had a hot water problem now for about 1 week.***

That statement intrigued me (35 years in Commercial Construction) so I went to the OSU website. I'll be darned if I can find any 'new' Gym that was 'just' built?!? The newest seems to be the Aquatic Center, but they wouldn't be playing basketball there would they?

And OSU has so many Athletic Buildings can you be more specific (name wise) as to which is the 'new' gym?

An aside, 'most' water leaks come from the roof. Sometimes its the design, sometimes workmanship, sometimes a combination of both. And where the water eventually winds up (like the gym floor) is irrelevant due to the way water travels - gravity and path of least resistance. And trying to find the originating point of the leak is a royal 'pain'. Everyone involved gets blamed, and then you have to try to disprove it was your 'fault'. As a Project Manager I hated those 'we have a water leak' calls the most. Especially in a School Gym -- a real, major, BIG TIME, money waster.

As to the 'no hot water', that sounds like an under sized Hot Water Heater(s) - Boiler(s). But now everything is 'Energy Savings' and designed to the bone. No 'safety factor' as to capacity, or like a standby HWH (or boiler). That can lead directly back to the owner - OSU, who mandates certain design criteria to the Architect-Engineer team.

Note: I'm not discounting an Engineering 'oversight' (that's construction PC for "Major ERROR"). Over the last couple years it seems every Mechanical Engineer I've dealt with was a bonehead and got their degree in Botswana or Pago Pago.

Oops, football's on (Da Bears), gotta run.

114 posted on 11/27/2005 9:56:39 AM PST by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: janetgreen

"BTTT from invaded California!"

BTTT from another section of invaded California!


115 posted on 11/27/2005 9:57:49 AM PST by calrighty (. Troops BTTT)
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To: Willie Green

"Do you live on the same planet as the rest of us?

Yep, I'm afraid so.
I figure it must be punishment for something I did in a previous life."

R O T F L M A O


116 posted on 11/27/2005 9:59:20 AM PST by calrighty (. Troops BTTT)
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To: Borax Queen
Bush is pushing a guest-worker program that would let undocumented workers obtain three-year work visas. Workers could extend that for another three years, but would then have to return to their home countries for a year to apply for a new work permit.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

I dare ANYBODY here at FR to step up and say "I believe this is the best approach."

What fool would fall for this? This is a tacit surrender to an invasion of our land.

Let all FR members go on record here as stating that "Bush is right" OR go on record and state that you do NOT think this is right. If doing the latter, we need to do what we did with Bush's Harriet Miers pick--we voiced extreme outrage and the result was we changed the course of history by forcing Bush's hand and making him trash his Miers pick and choose Alito instead. We activists at FR and elsewhere picked a SCOTUS nominee.

We now are called upon to do the same. All true conservatives must do what we did with Miers and show that we renounce this lunacy and will not stand for this "guest intruder" program.

Get you activist motors started and let us change history once again just as we did with the Harriet Miers pick. I am fed up with our elected officials trashing our national sovereignty.

117 posted on 11/27/2005 10:17:28 AM PST by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (Bush's #1 priority Africa. #2 priority appease Fox and Mexico . . . USA priority #64.)
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To: RJL; Zacs Mom; PhilDragoo; Happy2BMe; potlatch; ntnychik; Smartass; Boazo; Alamo-Girl; devolve; ...

from post 75

'As the sixth year rolls around the press will have a million stories about Juan and Juanita, about their children, jobs, homes, neighborhood, churches, schools... The politicians will fold in a heartbeat, they'll never be forced to leave.

What's needed:
1. Demonstrable US control of our borders.
2. Make sure employers have the tools to verify citizenship.
3. Fine employers of illegals, jail time for repeat offenders.
4. Remove anchor baby rights.
5. Make all law enforcement responsible for enforcing immigration laws.

Then the Congress can decide who and how many can immigrate, and bring them in on a citizenship track, not a phony guest worker status.'


118 posted on 11/27/2005 10:27:57 AM PST by bitt ('More bad news for the terrorists: This president is no Lyndon Johnson. He won't quit.')
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To: Borax Queen

Based on reading the first 100 replies here I see this issue tearing the GOP to pieces.

We better pull our shit together fast or the rats are going to run this issue straight up our asses in 2006 and walk away with the Senate and House.


119 posted on 11/27/2005 11:07:41 AM PST by mmercier (Beneath the onrush of deathless gods)
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To: Sterco
How does an honest contractor compete with the dishonest ones?

He shouldn't have to. The contractors who HIRE illegals should be fined. Sounds simple, huh? So why isn't this happening?

sw

120 posted on 11/27/2005 11:09:33 AM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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