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Abe Lincoln and the media

Posted on 11/26/2005 9:36:29 PM PST by Mier

While all the anti war cowards were screaming for Bush to cut and run and our willing accomplice main stream media acting like kids in a candy store. I heard someone on talk radio say that during the civil war Lincoln had his media detracters thrown in the bottom of a war ship until the war was over. But I can't find any facts on-line to back it up. Does any one know where I might go to find information on this? I mentioned this to a (left wing co-worker) and he thinks I made it up. I sure would like to prove him wrong! Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abelincoln; american; constitutionstomper; despot; dishonestabe; dixie; dixielost; greydiaperbabies; honestabe; kinglincoln; rebellion; slavers; tyrant; union; victory
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To: TexConfederate1861

I confess to be a Lincoln lover, and a Confederate/rebel "disliker," yep.


41 posted on 11/27/2005 1:33:24 PM PST by LS
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To: papertyger

Don't remember that, but I'm honored if it said that. The author challenged my view that Lincoln was an avowed Christian after 1863. I stand by my sources. If he doesn't like them, he doesn't have to accept them, and we'll see when we get to heaven. Since I know the reviewer, and since we have corresponded since, and since he has never made any derogatory remark about our treatment of Lincoln, I think we're pretty right-on with what we say.


42 posted on 11/27/2005 1:35:22 PM PST by LS
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To: LS
No, the Yankees in Missouri were the descent into hell for those of the southern persuasion.

Here you go, try this. There are only approximately 75,000 pages of the official reports from the US war department for the War of the Rebellion. Every campaign, battle & skirmish has contemporaneous after action reports from commanders and officers down to second lieutenants, from both the Union and confederate perspectives for the same events.

All 75 volumes are down loadable, this is the gold standard for the history of the civil war. I have been wading through these for sometime now, and still have a long ways to go.

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/moa/browse.monographs/waro.html
43 posted on 11/27/2005 2:12:21 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: TexConfederate1861
He provides well documented sources, so provide PROOF that he puts out slop.

Complete and utter nonsense. But let's take this one step at a time. How about this for a start. What is the source for his claim that Lincoln shut down 300 newspapers? I've looked and looked and I can't find any evidence to support his claim at all. None, zero, nada, zip, zilch. That should be an easy one, so perhaps you can let us all know what DiLusional had to support his asinine claim, what with his crap being so well documented and all?

44 posted on 11/27/2005 3:08:25 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: papertyger
Furthermore, for whatever reason the confederacy saw fit not to seat a supreme court, it was arguably a good enough reason to satisfy its members...

What justification is there to ignore the constitution?

So if the confederates were so onerously despotic to their own members and citizenry, how did they maintain cohesion?

In part, fear. The confederacy was controlled by thousands of appointed office holders called habeas corpus commissioners. They had the power to order anyone jailed without trial for suspected acts of disloyalty, real or imagined. It's been claimed that there were upwards of 15,000 political prisoners jailed under Lincoln. Evidence shows that over 5,000 were jailed under Davis. On a per capita basis you were more likely to be jailed with out trial in the confederacy than in the United States.

45 posted on 11/27/2005 3:14:45 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
The raid on Lawrence KS (payback is a bitch) was an attempt to capture the bloody minded Senator Lane, (he escaped by crawling into a corn field in his night clothes) who as a union general had by that time murdered thousands of pro southern Missourians.

And that justified murdering almost 200 men and boys?

46 posted on 11/27/2005 3:20:08 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: rustbucket
Some of the events below may well have been legitimate suppressions if the newspaper had published troop movements, etc., and thereby gave aid to the enemy.

Some? Or most? Or almost all?

Other suppressions may have been done simply because the paper or its editors criticized the way the administration was handling the war or thought the South was correct in its interpretation of the Constitution.

Which ones? And I notice that you didn't point out that the New York World and the New York Journal of Commerce where suspended it was for suspected financial fraud. And you also failed to mention that almost every one of those papers published throughout the war. Finally, if you posted this in support of Tommy DiLusional's claim that Lincoln shut down 300 newspapers, well, you're still 272 newspapers short.

47 posted on 11/27/2005 3:28:58 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Much of history (written by Yankees) taught since, teaches how brutal the Missouri Partisan Rangers were, they had to be to survive the onslaught carried out against them.

All history (not written by supporters of the southron myth machine) will admit that the Kansas-Missouri border war started well before the outbreak of the rebellion and that the supporters of slavery were just as brutal as were the supporters of abolition. The first sack of Lawrence brought on the Pottowattomie Massacres which caused the massacre at Marias des Cygne which resulted in the Battle of Osawatomie and so forth and so on. And once the rebellion began the bloodshed on both sides got worse. So please don't try to paint Quantrell and Bloody Bill Anderson and their ilk as simple southern farmboys forced to commit acts against their will. They were blood thirsty psychotics who loved every minute of the misery and death that they caused. And there were more than a few just like them on the Union side.

48 posted on 11/27/2005 4:36:09 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur; PeaRidge
... I notice that you didn't point out that the New York World and the New York Journal of Commerce where suspended it was for suspected financial fraud.

From Link:

Suppression of these editors began early in the war. For example, in August of 1861, the Christian Observer was closed by the U.S. marshal in Philadelphia. (62) At the same time, a federal grand jury in New York cited the Journal of Commerce, the Daily News, the Day-Book, the weekly Freeman's Journal, and the Brooklyn Eagle for the "frequent practice of encouraging the rebels now in arms against the Federal Government." This was followed by an order from the Postmaster General forbidding the mailing of these newspapers. (63)

if you posted this in support of Tommy DiLusional's claim that Lincoln shut down 300 newspapers, well, you're still 272 newspapers short.

Still trying to get others to do your homework for you? I suggest that you ask DiLorenzo himself. He can be reached over the Internet.

Here's some additional information for you:

The same day the Jeffersonian was sacked, a secessionist newspaper in Easton was mobbed, and a publisher in Haverhill, Massachusetts, was tarred and feathered by a mob.

And ...

In July of 1862 military officials suppressed the circulation of the Quincy Herald on the premise that it encouraged the work of rebel guerillas in western Illinois. Pro-union mobs also shut several papers, including the Bloomington Times, through intimidation or the outright destruction of offices and printing apparatus.

And you also failed to mention that almost every one of those papers published throughout the war.

Kind of hard to publish if your printing press is destroyed. Perhaps some papers were published again once their publishers, editors, and proprietors were freed from prison. But they were no doubt under threat of being jailed again if they published something in sympathy with the South or something against the Lincoln Administration.

When faced with presure from the public, Lincoln did occasionally back down on a paper closure.

In June of that year [1863] General Ambrose Burnside, in command of the department of the northwest, unilaterally suppressed the [Chicago] Times, as well as the Jonesboro Gazette "on account of the repeated expression of disloyal and incendiary statements." Residents of Chicago responded with a mass meeting of twenty thousand and demanded free speech. The Illinois House of Representatives passed a resolution condemning Burnside's order, and the next day President Lincoln revoked it.

And from an old post of PeaRidge's:

A mob of Federal soldiers demolished the offices of the Democratic Standard in Washington, DC, after it editorialized about military blunders during the Battle of First Manassas. This same thing happened to the Bangor Democrat when a Unionist mob completely destroyed the Maine paper’s printing facilities and demanded the hanging of the editor.

49 posted on 11/27/2005 5:39:33 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
This was followed by an order from the Postmaster General forbidding the mailing of these newspapers.

And this is unconstitutional how?

Still trying to get others to do your homework for you? I suggest that you ask DiLorenzo himself. He can be reached over the Internet.

I'd rather ask you, you're the one claiming Tommy's BS is so well documented.

Kind of hard to publish if your printing press is destroyed.

Ah yes, all those printing presses you claim that were destroyed by federal troops. Or was it mobs? You're story keeps changing.

50 posted on 11/27/2005 5:49:20 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Mobs in some cases; army troops in others.

Seward could have been a member of today's MSM.

DEPARTMENT OF STATE, Washington, September 17, 1861.

JOHN A. KENNEDY, Esq.,

Superintendent of Police, New York.

DEAR SIR: I have received your letter of the 14th, relative to the National Zeitung and M. C. Stanley. In reply I have to state that if you will furnish me with the names of one or two persons whose arrest would be likely to produce a proper effect upon the course of that paper I will communicate a decision upon the subject.

I am, very truly, yours,

WILLIAM H. SEWARD

51 posted on 11/27/2005 6:33:13 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: Non-Sequitur

Have you checked his bibliography? Most of his writings I have read have clear documented sources.


52 posted on 11/27/2005 8:02:48 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: LS

Well,I'm not fond of d*mn Yankees either, so I guess that just about evens it out.


53 posted on 11/27/2005 8:04:22 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: Non-Sequitur

Documentation please. NOW look who is putting out a solid crock of manure.......


54 posted on 11/27/2005 8:06:44 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: Non-Sequitur
The psychopath John Brown, Senator Lane & his red legs begat the Partisan rangers, and Bloody Bill had a bit of reason for being a bit off in the head after the unionists murdered his father & sister.

Face it, Missouri was our own Balkans war, for 10 years before, and 20 years after the civil war, neighbors were murdering neighbors with unrelenting hatred.

Some talk of the Hatfield's and the McCoys as being a war of the feud. Compared to Missouri, the Hatfield's and McCoys played make believe children's games.

Pure Hollywood, but check out this movie, it will give the drift of those hatreds.

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/film.nsf/reviews/ridewdevil
55 posted on 11/27/2005 8:06:57 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Mostly men, very fewboys, and hell YES it was justified!
The "redlegs" sure didn't have a problem with murdering Southerners of any age! (or gender)


56 posted on 11/27/2005 8:08:39 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: Non-Sequitur
Offering no excuses for either side.

But, the burning down of farms and homes when the men were gone, the turning out of the women & young to starve in the the dead of winter. A free fire zone along the border of Missouri to kill women & children. The red legs murdering the citizens & burning down the town of Nevada Missouri.

The unionists committed mass murder when they shot down 30 unarmed southern men in St. Louis, .

Imprisoning women & children in a unsafe and over crowded building in Kansas City, where the building collapsed, killing many of them.

All of this was a call for bloody retaliation in kind. Such acts made more than a few partisan rangers have dark thoughts of ruthless revenge.

You decry the Lawrence Kansas debacle, well, payback is a bitch
57 posted on 11/27/2005 8:31:15 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: LS
>> It's "dissent," but your anecdotal evidence is NOT supported by the study of Bensel. And name calling him a "Yankee" won't exactly work. <<

You have to wonder if all these "patriots" who sneer when they use word "yankee" are the types to cringe when Yankee Doodle Dandy is played. George Washington and all the other revolutions were sneered at and called "yankees" by the Brits and every American-hating foreign body likes to use the word "yankees" in a similar condescending, sneering tone. They should move to France or Mexico, they'd be right at home with all the other "yankee" haters.

58 posted on 11/27/2005 8:44:34 PM PST by BillyBoy (Find out the TRUTH about the Chicago Democrat Machine's "Best Friend" in the GOP... www.nolahood.com)
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To: TexConfederate1861
>> Well,I'm not fond of d*mn Yankees either, so I guess that just about evens it out. <<


Amigo! I hate the yankee bastards up north as well! You are my kinda guy. I am a HUGE fan of the right of secession too. Just wait til the Chicanos get a majority in Texas and run your legislature. We will fight for soviegnity right and hertiage, and secede from the yankee scumbags. Civil War II, here we come! Viva Atzlan!

59 posted on 11/27/2005 8:50:53 PM PST by BillyBoy (Find out the TRUTH about the Chicago Democrat Machine's "Best Friend" in the GOP... www.nolahood.com)
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To: LS
"Lew Rockwell is a racist and totally un-historical site, by the way. You'll get no more replies from me. But the other board members should know that Lew Rockwell's site has the accuracy of, well, "Uncle Tom's Cabin"

Painting with a BROAD brush as you do indicates a closed mind concerning many subjects of importance.

60 posted on 11/27/2005 9:27:13 PM PST by Rabble (Just When is John F sKerry going to release his USNR military records ?)
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