Krauthammer: The Truth about Torture (It's time to be honest about doing terrible things)

The Weekly Standard ^ | December 5, 2005 | Charles Krauthammer

[RWR8189]

DURING THE LAST FEW WEEKS in Washington the pieties about torture have lain so thick in the air that it has been impossible to have a reasoned discussion. The McCain amendment that would ban "cruel, inhuman, or degrading" treatment of any prisoner by any agent of the United States sailed through the Senate by a vote of 90-9. The Washington establishment remains stunned that nine such retrograde, morally inert persons--let alone senators--could be found in this noble capital.

[AmeriBrit]

"Dude, Krauthammer isn't able to stand."


Excuse me.....perhaps I should inflict 30 lashes on myself for that error, but I have never seen anything to that effect in his bio or when I've seen him on TV, so at the moment the juries still out.

http://www.harrywalker.com/speakers_template.cfm?Spea_ID=497

http://www.benadorassociates.com/krauthammer.php

Oh! as far as addressing me as 'Dude,' you can take it to the bank you have the wrong gender.

[El Gato]

Exempting the military will not work. Often they will be the only ones close enough to do any good at all in the "ticking time bomb" scenario. You might be able to restrict it such that the decision can't be made by privates or 2nd Lt's. But Sr. NCOs and Captains and above are perfectly capable of making such decisions.

[El Gato]

Why didn't John McCain turn to terrorism?

He did. His attacks are on the Constitution of the United States, even though he has sworn multiple times to "support and defend" it against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Instead he has become it's Domestic Enemy.

[T. Buzzard Trueblood]

Ethics 101: A terrorist has planted a nuclear bomb in New York City. It will go off in one hour. A million people will die. You capture the terrorist. He knows where it is. He's not talking...Not only is it permissible to hang this miscreant by his thumbs. It is a moral duty.

[GeronL]

Ever since he decided government should set gas prices at $3 a gallon no matter what he costs I haven't cared a lot about what he says

[msf92497]

Ewww. Flagellation is gross.

Mr Krauthammer has been paralyzed since '72.

http://www.answers.com/topic/charles-krauthammer

[taxesareforever]

McCain might as well look across the aisle for his mate but if he finds one on this side he will go down to defeat with McCain.

[Mia T]

I agree with you RR; I have problems with the crux of the Krauthammer argument.

COMMENTS:

1. McCain's phony moral preening exposes a sick mix of vanity and stupidity.
   
   Krauthammer's argument for exceptions to McCain's no-torture law (the ticking time bomb and the slower-fuse high-level terrorist ) is also an argument to keep McCain VERY far away from the presidency.

   Faced with a similar choice, an American president would have a similar obligation. To do otherwise--to give up the chance to find your soldier lest you sully yourself by authorizing torture of the person who possesses potentially lifesaving information--is a deeply immoral betrayal of a soldier and countryman. Not as cosmically immoral as permitting a city of one's countrymen to perish, as in the Ethics 101 case. But it remains, nonetheless, a case of moral abdication--of a kind rather parallel to that of the principled pacifist. There is much to admire in those who refuse on principle ever to take up arms under any conditions. But that does not make pure pacifism, like no-torture absolutism, any less a form of moral foolishness, tinged with moral vanity. Not reprehensible, only deeply reproachable and supremely impracticable. People who hold such beliefs are deserving of a certain respect. But they are not to be put in positions of authority. One should be grateful for the saintly among us. And one should be vigilant that they not get to make the decisions upon which the lives of others depend.--Krauthammer
   

2. A politically correct War on Terror is mortal danger wrapped in absurdity; a prime example: giving the terrorists their instruction manual (the Koran). I have been arguing against this practice for years. Why does Krauthammer use this moronity as proof of our enlightenment and not our utter stupidity?
   
   
3. Krauthammer, a physician, is using the triage model for his basic argument. His premise, that risk and value assessment of terrorists can be calibrated with precision so that the torture applied can be proportional to the threat is wishful thinking at best, and begging the question, in any case.
   
   We must assume the worst case scenario for all terrorists unless and until we prove otherwise.

[jordan8]

Krauthammer is insane. A few quick points.

Richard Jewell was a terror suspect. What if the person under torture is innocent?

They'll torture suspected Muslim terrorists today, you tomorrow.

Krauthammer makes a big point of saying terrorists are illegal combatants but he does not advocate torture as a punishment making the point moot. The argument about saving innocent lives could be applied against, say, Air Force pilots, the illegal combatant part is irrelevant. Or they could simply be declared to be illegal combatants or war criminals by dint of belonging to an organization that has killed civilians (which is exactly what happened in Vietnam).

Tough guy encourages tough response. If a guerrilla knows he's going to be executed on capture he may well decide to fight to the death. Same with torture. Relatives of the killed and tortured might then decide to join the guerrillas. Torture didn't stop terrorism in Israel, a wall did, if anything torture upped the ante.

The attempt to separate the military from the torturer is fantasy, they will be considered part and parcel of the same organization.

[Fruit of the Spirit]

"I always wonder why the left, media, etc. says that we made more terrorists by torture and mistreatment. Why didn't John McCain turn to terrorism?"

He did! He's a RINO and he's no better than Kennedrunk!

[JennysCool]

I have nothing against torture to get information which will save lives.

But I think we're WAY ahead of that.

I have no doubt at all that we have developed a drug or two -- and probably long ago, at that -- that easily extracts info from suspects just by asking them a few questions.

A hyper-pentathol.

But, developments in this area definitely must be kept secret, so I'm certain those in the know cringe when they hear tales of "torture" -- real or imagined.

My guess is as far as you think American tech has come in 2005, add about 25 years for the stuff we have today that mum's the word about.

[river rat]

I've stated a number of times, my belief that McCain is still the prisoner of the Communists...

His "performance" with John Kerry on the Senate Select Committee on POW and MIA Affairs -- was TOO bizarre...

To McCain -- the Vietnamese were the truthful heroes and the POW/MIA activists were the bad guys needing to be silenced.. It made me sick.... His clear bias in favor of the murderous Communists and animosity toward the families and activists of the POW/MIA families was unexplainable and infuriating.

From that day, I've believed McCain was showing his gratefulness that films or information about his behavior while a POW was held but not revealed by the Communists..

McCain either owes the Communists something, or he is the true Manchurian Candidate..

To have him in in the Senate is a risk too great..

Semper Fi

[jazzlite]

"Simply Brilliant."

YES! Krauthhammer has one of the best minds in the nation. He is a great "analyst" in all respects. I always look forward to his views on anything.

[MNJohnnie]

IMHO, the only way to infiltrate and disrupt these cells is through an intense HUMINT effort and a reduction on our depence on oil.

Nope. Suggest you leave the tactics to the pros instead of your emotional whimsy.

[Archangelsk]

Ex-11B, I know that you basically know how to fire some, but very few, weapons systems, which is commendable, but as far as the intel side, I suggest you get a clue as to whom you're talking to before you spout off again.

[MNJohnnie]

Nope. Suggest you leave the tactics to the pros instead of your emotional whimsy.

Please spare us the posturing.

[DH]

The same logic applies to assassinations.

One sharpshooter, 1 gun and a $1.00 bullet can save thousands of lives in the battlefield or countless lives of civilians.

I know the reason we don't do it and the reason is that war is good for business. Just like the ACLU is good for the political and legal industry.

The time has come to spend $1.00 to save billions of dollars and countless lives, and to torture 1 to save thousands of lives.

[El Gato]

Richard Jewell was a terror suspect. What if the person under torture is innocent? They'll torture suspected Muslim terrorists today, you tomorrow.

Well there's torture as defined by this bill and the MSM, and then there's real torture.

The guys in the Hanoi Hilton, and the crew of the USS Pueblo, to name only a few, suffered real physical torture. This bill also prohibits "degrading" treatment. IOW, panties on the head. Blindfolds for travel, maybe orange jumpsuits for all we know. Who knows what an Islamanazi might find degrading? Maybe being guarded by unveiled female guards, with guns, and being driven around by female drivers?

Of course they can't just shoot you or I down on the street, without warning, without giving us a chance to give up. They can't even arrest us without proximate probable cause or an arrest warrant signed by a magistrate. But in wartime, things are a bit different. They can, and do shoot the terrorists, and only need capture them when it's relatively safe to do so. Things are different in wartime, and also different when dealing with foreign enemies rather than US citizens.

[Cicero]

Yes, you are right. Assassination is not something to be used lightly, but I was pleased that President Bush has used it, not against a head of state but against a few terrorist leaders that we know of.