Posted on 11/25/2005 6:19:05 AM PST by labette
LAWRENCE (AP) - Critics of a new course that equates creationism and intelligent design with mythology say an e-mail sent by the chairman of the University of Kansas religious studies department proves the course is designed to mock fundamentalist Christians.
In a recent message on a Yahoo listserv, Paul Mirecki said of the course "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationisms and other Religious Mythologies:"
"The fundies want it all taught in a science class, but this will be a nice slap in their big fat face by teaching it as a religious studies class under the category mythology."
He signed the note "Doing my part (to upset) the religious right, Evil Dr. P."
Kansas Provost David Shulenburger said Wednesday he regretted the words Mirecki used, but he supported the professor and believed the course would be taught in a professional manner.
"My understanding was that was a private e-mail communication that somehow was moved out of those channels and has become a public document," Shulenburger said.
The course was added to next semester's curriculum after Kansas Board of Education adopted new public school science standards that question the theory of evolution.
The course will explore intelligent design, which contends that life is too complex to have evolved without a "designer," presumably a god or other supernatural being. It also will cover the origins of creationism, why it's an American phenomenon and why Americans have allowed it to pervade politics and education.
State Sen. Karin Brownlee, R-Olathe, said she was concerned by Mirecki's comments in the e-mail.
"His intent to make a mockery of Christian beliefs is inappropriate," she said.
Mirecki said the private e-mail was accessed by an outsider.
"They had been reading my e-mails all along," he said. "Where are the ethics in that, I ask."
When asked about conservative anger directed at him and the new course, Mirecki said: "A lot of people are mad about what's going on in Kansas, and I'm one of them."
Mirecki has been taking criticism since the course was announced.
"This man is a hateful man," said state Sen. Kay O'Connor, R-Olathe. "Are we supposed to be using tax dollars to promote hatred?"
But others support Mirecki.
Tim Miller, a fellow professor in the department of religious studies, said intelligent design proponents are showing that they don't like having their beliefs scrutinized.
"They want their religion taught as fact," Miller said. "That's simply something you can't do in a state university."
Hume Feldman, associate professor of physics and astronomy, said he planned to be a guest lecturer in the course. He said the department of religious studies was a good place for intelligent design.
"I think that is exactly the appropriate place to put these kinds of ideas," he said.
John Altevogt, a conservative columnist and activist in Kansas City, said the latest controversy was sparked by the e-mail.
"He says he's trying to offend us," Altevogt said. "The entire tenor of this thing just reeks of religious bigotry."
Mirecki said intelligent design proponents are pushing indoctrination, not education.
O'Connor countered that it is not indoctrination to give permission to teach what somebody believes to be the truth.
"He wants me to say thank you by giving more money," O'Connor said. "Who is the ignoramus here? Who is the uninformed one here? The professor with the degree or this high school graduate?"
Brownlee said she was watching to see how the university responded to the e-mail.
"We have to set a standard that it's not culturally acceptable to mock
I remember those old movies. Watched a lot of them as an undergrad, some years ago. Peasants with pitchforks out after the monsters. Die, monster, die!
You either have a good memory or a good imagination.
Ah, lad, I was merely taking exception to your penchant for saying "by definition," which is but laziness on your part.
Pitchforks, you think? Shotguns? Or just the classic 'throw a rope over a tree limb' technique?
Absolutely the most perfect description of both the debate re: Evolution vs Intelligent Design AND Personal Salvation. Those two words: "You Decide". I've sat through hours of Biology & Science classes covering "Big Band" & "Evolution" & "Mythology" & etc... AND I've sat through many sermons explaining "Free Will", "Covenant Fulfillment", with all the related cross-referenced, concordanced, original Hebrew/Greek....but it does all come down to Jesus at the table...and each one of us deciding.
Thank YOU WLR for a post which made me smile tonight and think about Heaven...and my parents who are with the Lord already. My Dad's in those woods...I'm sure drove there in his old green '37 truck, last seen in one piece rising on it's own via a 1970 Kentucky tornado...(Dad wasn't in it at the time). And in Heaven, the animals talk, we can ski without getting cold, swim underwater or walk across it and slide down rainbows (my personal favorite)...And I expect to see my Dad finally getting the idle/carburetor adjusted on my '75 Nova...so I can take it out and hear that V-8 purr...perhaps with the Lord riding shotgun.
Hmmm, I also think if your vision of a "perfect" round of target shooting requires competition...that the Lord will have something in mind...He certainly let the disciples fish to various degrees of success without swamping their boats with a "perfect" catch (except on one or two occasions).
You may be aware that many denominations do not follow the scripture as an authority on truth. Consider the denominations who allow their leaders to be openly homosexual in clear contravention of a straightforward reading of Scripture.
During the Middle Ages the church went so far as to practice unbiblical traditions that oppose scripture by allowing the masses to become intentionally ignorant of the Word of God to further the leaders personal political agendas of wealth and prestige (this continues to go on in some denominations today).
The more ignorant a group is of the whole of scripture, the more likely they are being deceived by charlatans; just like any endeavor.
Which only goes to show that you can read anything whatever into the Bible.
If the Bible can be twisted to mean anything, then it means nothing.
Don't take anyones word for anything. You can discern for yourself how accurately someone is adhering to the Bible. Our Creator created us with brains to enjoy learning things for ourselves, and not having to rely on the ideas of another mere mortal. Whether it be science or theology.
Do not trust an experts opinion on something unless you are also enough of an expert to tell if they are right or wrong. Especially if your health is on the line, which will make many people quick studies.
You mean they decided that it was OK for the church to sin?
Or is my contention correct that they merely interpreted the Bible differently, in a way where they believed they were not committing sin?
I believe the later is true because:
No church leader believes their official church doctrine is sinful.
There are innumerable Christian denominations, each believing their doctrine is correct.
And I have observed doctrinal change over time within a single church on the issue of creation vs. evolution (the issue of slavery is another huge demonstration of this). This demonstrates that the same congregation can change their mind on the meaning of the Bible over time.
I return to my original contention. If the Bible can be twisted to mean anything, and it obviously has been, then the Bible means nothing.
A God that can't even communicate a single common belief among His followers is impotent.
*chuckle* and a bow to a well informed literary critic.
Of course. It's clear from years of these threads that that is the actual interest of the "evos" much more than studying biology or evolution.
And note how the Provost has no problem with this type of talk. Gosh, I wonder if he had made comments like this about any other religious, ethnic or self proclaimed group.
The incredible double standards and hypocracy.
It is funny that university teaching has run so low on ideas that they want to now teach clasees simply to mock.
Of course. It's clear from years of these threads that that is the actual interest of the "evos" much more than studying biology or evolution.
Or then again maybe some of the scientists on these threads prefer to follow evidence, rather than belief?
That's too BAD!
Mark 4:22
For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open.
Nah... that's what you do when you do not believe God's Word.
Just as the Toe CHANGES when new data contradicts the old guesses.
Now you KNOW this stuff was written by ignurt sheepherders!
Why do you believe it?
Who is this St. Pete and why was HE looking at a book?
Seems to me that the last time I read it it went like this.....
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia[a]in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits[b] thick,[c] by man's measurement, which the angel was using. 18The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.[d] 21The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.
22I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
I proofread my stuff and miss GRATE errors at times.
He gotcha; fair and square! ;^)
15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
But; withOUT the BB, we never get to the point of E.
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