Posted on 11/23/2005 10:30:31 AM PST by AZRepublican
In May of this year, a Jonesboro student gave a prayer during a high school graduation ceremony at the Arkansas State University Convocation Center. During the prayer, which lasted four minutes, she gave an “altar call” to the community, asking those in the audience to come forward to accept Jesus Christ.
“In the closing moments of this service, if you would like to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, here's your chance,” said senior Jessica Reed in a May 20, 2005 taped video of JHS graduation ceremonies.
“We were contacted sometime after that by the American Civil Liberties Union that they felt like there had been a violation of the First Amendment, separation of church and state with regard to a prayer,” said Jonesboro Public Schools Attorney Donn Mixon.
And now the ACLU is looking for a plaintiff in a case against Jonesboro High School. In a letter written by the Arkansas ACLU executive director Rita Sklar, the event is described as a “blatant display of contempt for the First Amendment.”
(Excerpt) Read more at kait8.com ...
I can't imagine any circumstance a bris would come into play. If you support evangelization under these circumstances, whether it be Christian, Muslim, or whatever, you're consistant, though we disagree.
I don't think RICO could be used against ACLU, at least not based on the stuff we're all familiar with. But they are clearly involved in both defending and prosecuting religious activities, and that ought to disqualify them from non-profit status.
They brag about how they don't receive any tax dollars, but the fact is that they get a tax subsidy from their non-profit status. And nine times out of ten, the government ends up paying their atttorney's fees in these lawsuits.
Yeah, but non-Christians tend to not like that. They seem to think that it implies that their religion is inferior. And believe it or not, a lot of people don't think a graduation ceremony is the place to promote religious exclusionism. Go figure.
BTW, Christians are required to call folks to Christ. Other groups look at proselytizing as being somehow dirty.
It's not dirty at all. It's a religious calling. But that doesn't mean you gotta constantly scream it at the top of your lungs every chance you get, or that other people should be forced to listen to you.
Obviously conflict might occur from time to time, but when a Christian accepts you to accept the Lord he is hardly excluding you.
You are 100% correct on that. Neither is a Muslim who may try to convert you or me to Islam. But speaking for myself, I'd get pissed about something like that if it was allowed at a public graduation ceremony. So that's where I'm coming from on this
The government does not have the authority under our Constitution to prohibit this sort of thing.
Like I say, I'm not talking about a freedom of speech issue. She has the right to speak, but that does not mean that it's OK for her to inject her own agenda into a publicly-funded event. The right to free speech doesn't include a publicly-financed microphone and podium.
There is no greater, more uplifting moment in a person's entire life than the moment they welcome God into their life, and I have. But I have Jewish friends that would get really upset if something like this happened, and I wouldn't blame them.
"But then I've always been one to practice my religion in the quiet of my home"
Thats great if it works for you, but I believe Jessica has a good understanding of Matthew 5:14-16.
Doesn't say "firearms", just "arms". I'm just as happy to defend my First Amendment rights with a sword, old screwdriver, or my trusty Hyundai automobile as I am a gun.
Can you imagine how a thread about that situation would develop? We'd have calls for stripping the girl of her citizenship and deporting her.
" So the answer to incivility is more incivility? Great.
People should just forego the opportunity to watch their children graduate because some dumb twit decides to turn her speech into a religious rite. That's a mature answer."
Wake up, the time for whimps passed along time ago. The ACLU will fight for every muslim to worship freely in public but will attack Christians at the drop of a hat. There is no shame in attacking Christians and Christians can not stand by and claim a moral victory by staying quiet. It has been a losing battle because of this.
BTW it is a mature answer - if you are so offended with someone professing their faith, in a brief statement, then perhaps you should practice a little more tolerance. I cant believe that the PC types like yourself are so damn offended by someone showing their faith. I suspect that you are all for tolerance and diveristy mantra except for Christians?
I guess we should all cower and be quiet in case we might offend someone - good answer pc man. Im sure there is something in every speech that might offend someone - people need to get a backbone and quit being so damn offended. She didnt call anyone or anything out and persecute them - what the hell is your problem anyway?
Yeah, but I wasn't adressing that part of it. And on that part, I agree with you 100%.
>>Can you imagine how a thread about that situation would develop? We'd have calls for stripping the girl of her citizenship and deporting her.<<
That, my FRiend is a fact.
What she did is a bit change, but really not much different than wearing holy garments under your outer clothing.
An early poster used a bris performed by a Jewish student in his argument. Frankly, as much as I've learned about various religious practices over the years, I'd never before heard of any Jewish family allowing a "student" do that!
If you believe that only a secularist would find this inappropiate, then it is you who has the narrow view. High School graduations are not the place for a tent revival or for any type of attempt at religious conversion. A prayer or a part of the speech being used to explain how religion played a factor in her success would have been OK. But, I think sometimes people pull stunts like this to pick a fight.
>>if you are so offended with someone professing their faith, in a brief statement, then perhaps you should practice a little more tolerance. I cant believe that the PC types like yourself are so damn offended by someone showing their faith.<<
She wasn't professing her faith, she was asking others to join hers.
At a meeting in the school, fine. At a gradution ceremony, it is tactless.
Wiccan, Muslim, Christian or Jewish, asking others to join in does not belong in this setting.
Someone else will do that one.
My answer is "Only if they feel that way themselves".
I've been offered many opportunities to join neighbors in prayer at some of the local mosques. I've even been asked to join a Lubovitch prayer group.
Doesn't make me feel my religion is inferior.
"But I have Jewish friends that would get really upset if something like this happened, and I wouldn't blame them."
Good let them get upset - that is their right and if they want to start a different University just for Jews that is also their right. People can and do get upset for anything - so perhaps it would be better to ban speeches altogether right? That way we dont offend anyone. Or perhaps people who are a minority of the population could disregard what is being said and put into context. She didnt attack anyone and other religions who would be upset about this are just looking for a reason to bash Chriistians and free speech.
Look at it this way, if the law were that no one could speak stupidly in public, whatever would we do for politicians.
cept that's not true.
Actually, graduation ceremonies have nothing whatsoever to do with completing the requirements to be certified as a graduate.
They are "ceremonies" ~ nothing more, and ceremonial type stuff is always in order at such events.
"She wasn't professing her faith, she was asking others to join hers.
At a meeting in the school, fine. At a gradution ceremony, it is tactless.
Wiccan, Muslim, Christian or Jewish, asking others to join in does not belong in this setting. "
She was doing both. It is tactless to you but not to others. If the community is 98% Christian they have no obligation to set aside their beliefs. What else is off limits - Im sure we could come up with other things. It definitely belongs in this settting - what do you make laws in this country? I thought we are a Republic and last I looked it wasnt in the Constitution that this type of speech was banned. Or perhaps you believe in an evolving constitution.
I never will forget a seminar in school where I got into a shouting match with a philosophy prof. He started out making some snide comment about Jesus, and I told him he was either historically ignorant or deliberately dishonest, and either disqualified him from from speaking to us on the subject. He was vicious and I was a bit of a pit bull myself. We went at it hammer and tongs over the centrality of the resurrection of Jesus. At one point, I threw a pen I was holding up against the wall and said I had never met anyone so intellectually dishonest and "with the exception of myself, I have never met anyone so academically arrogant with less basis for their arrogance." So here I was feeling bad about dishonoring Jesus by going on a RANT in his name, and some guy walked up to me and said "I have wanted to know about God for a while now and you seem like you know what you are talking about." We went to my apartment and the guy wound up a professing Christian. So, while I would not be exactly proud of my conversation with my professor, it was an example of how God can use a crooked stick to draw a straight line.
I still think having an altar call at a HS graduation was really really on the dumb side. It is not like Jesus was down front with the girl and they had to walk down in order to meet him.
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