ACLU Looking to File Suit Over JHS Graduation "Altar Call" (Someone shoot me)

http://www.kait8.com/Global/story.asp?S=4150375&nav=0jsh ^ | November 21, 2005 | Heather Flanigan

[Grizzled Bear]

Can she sue for racketeering? Harassment?

[Grizzled Bear]

Yet, the dems are trying to argue the opposite, nmely, that true christianity is reflected by liberal ideals (if there are any).
________________________________________________________
Homosexual acts, Infanticide, Welfare state?

[Ultra Sonic 007]

(watches the debate with interest)

If I may interject... *from the article*

“Our policy is to not recognize any particular religion and not to recognize religion, period,” said Mixon, “In this case, the student was on the school program as giving a prayer, and that does go against our policies.”

Well gee, then isn't the guy who finalized the graduation program at fault? He let it pass. But in all seriousness...

What the heck is the debate about?

She spent only four minutes. FOUR. FREAKING. MINUTES. Not ten. Not twenty. Not a half hour or longer like a sermon. FOUR. It was her decision to make the 'altar call', and it was within her right to do so. The school acknowledged their 'mistake' and apologized to anyone who was 'offended'. I can't imagine why; if a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, or a Muslim made an altar call, I either wouldn't mind or not pay attention (or get mad in the case of a Muslim). But it's their right in this country to do so (you know, no government suppression and establishment of religion and whatnot)...and in this case, the girl was invited to pray. No fault; just a bit of misunderstanding.

Is it really worth getting your pants twisted up in a knot over? The ACLU is grasping at straws here; it happened months ago, and it's behind. End of story.

Someone should inform the ACLU that the 'separation of church & state clause' ain't in the Constitution. Sure, no religion will be established...but the stamping out of the free practice of religion in ANY public institution (if I want to pray before eating lunch in the cafeteria, am I supposed to have my rights stamped on in the name of political correctness? I don't think so.) is getting ridiculous.

What this girl did was wrong and truly mean spirited. Bully pulpit is an understatement. All she did was make the right look even more stupid and arrogant. Crap like this makes me furious!

Please tell me you're joking.

[najida]

No,
I'm not joking.

I can tell you lots of reasons why, lots ways that I've seen religion treated badly on one hand but even more I've seen it used as a battering ram. No bully is greater than the one believing they've got God in their back pocket.

I believe that when people do this stuff, its all about being drama queen and attention whore..... and winning points with the big guy in the sky.

God ain't no more in it than popcicles are made in the Sahara.

[Ultra Sonic 007]

You really think this girl was acting malicious and mean-spirited by simply making an INVITATION during a short prayer? The timing was probably a bit bad, but that's a personal judgment problem, not a problem of the law.

I believe that when people do this stuff, its all about being drama queen and attention whore

Have any proof to back up this libelous claim? Do you think that it wasn't a legitimate and heartfelt attempt at inviting people to come to know Jesus? That it was just a way to feed her ego?

God ain't no more in it than popcicles are made in the Sahara.

The fact that missionaries exist to go throughout the world to proselytize other people kind of makes that statement a moot point, don't you think? Besides, New Testament Scripture dictates for people to actively convert others through words and invitation to accepting the grace of Jesus.

I don't think this girl was using Christianity as a battering ram; merely making an invitation. The fact that there's NOT A SINGLE PLAINTIFF seems to confirm this hypothesis.

[Ultra Sonic 007]

You really think this girl was acting malicious and mean-spirited by simply making an INVITATION during a short prayer? The timing was probably a bit bad, but that's a personal judgment problem, not a problem of the law.

I believe that when people do this stuff, its all about being drama queen and attention whore

Have any proof to back up this libelous claim? Do you think that it wasn't a legitimate and heartfelt attempt at inviting people to come to know Jesus? That it was just a way to feed her ego?

God ain't no more in it than popcicles are made in the Sahara.

The fact that missionaries exist to go throughout the world to proselytize other people kind of makes that statement a moot point, don't you think? Besides, New Testament Scripture dictates for people to actively convert others through words and invitation to accepting the grace of Jesus.

I don't think this girl was using Christianity as a battering ram; merely making an invitation. The fact that there's NOT A SINGLE PLAINTIFF seems to confirm this hypothesis.

[najida]

Hun,

When you've been repeatedly forced to your knees, and
told to pray....exact words....by and for the very person who hates you and tells you you're evil and hell bound...

When you've had religion used as a weapon to terrorize you, hurt you, destroy your spirit and soul...

When you've been proselytized by numerous sects as early as you can remember to the point of near madness.... because you're not 'saved' or you haven't been 'born again' or you weren't baptized in the right way or you take communion wrong OR you don't have altar calls :(

Only to go home and get more of the same at the end of the day. THEN we'll talk.

As far as libel, I'm just going on decades of observation and experience. Sorta like saying I know dogs usually pee of fire hydrants. I'm sure there are those that don't. I've yet to see an altar call that didn't have a bit of high theater in it.....It does seem to fill a void with some people.

But only the stupid would think that everyone would see good in that and none would be insulted by the arrogance.

As far as missionaries and converting folks, I find that example is far better than mistreatment, insults and acting like there is this magical verse in the Bible that will make me see that light. Sorry, but read interviews with the kids who survived the Branch Davidian fire.... They're pretty much 'ruined' too.

Example will go a long way for those kinds of folks.

After a lifetime of show boaters, Super-pray-ers, Mega Altar Calls and constant haranguing by Evangelists From the Church of God Hates You and I Hate You Too, I was way more impressed by the Muslim who quietly prayed upstairs in a quiet corner.

Way more impressed. I'm way more impressed by living quietly than getting in people's faces.

PS,
Behind me sits the Jerome Biblical Commentary, all 3 volumes of the Suma Theologica, all the works of CS Lewis, 3 concordances, 3 hymnals and 3 Bibles (Jerusalem, Good News and RSV) Not including the Thomas Nelson eBible on my 'puter. So, I do have some religious experience ;)

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Trust me, I can understand where you're coming from. I can still remember a sermon from long ago (at a church I no longer go to) that 'IF YOU LISTEN TO ROCK MUSIC, YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE!" Even though rock music has proven to be a wonderful channel for Christian music.

Televangelists that show off their wealth and use the 'do as I say not as I do' form of teaching (like Jimmy Swaggert) aren't Christians in my book.

It's a possibility, but considering the admittedly little evidence offered (only a four-minute prayer and no plaintiffs and no complaints), I don't think this girl pulled a 'televangelist'.

[najida]

I agree,
I don't think she pulled a televangelist. I do think she is of the 'God is a fluffy puppy' mindset, and can't understand that, due to bad experiences from the 'bad guys', many see God as a rabid wolf.

So pulling out her puppy had others cringing at the wolf (metaphor, sorta, kinda).

No, the worse she was guilty of is a bit of naivete' and maybe the arrogance of youth. Maybe she really believes she did some good. Honestly, I believe in 10 years she'll look back on the experience with different eyes and see how something negative could come of it too.

And no plaintiffs, of course.

I wouldn't have sued either. I would have just made a point of avoiding her and those who went to her church. I've had enough of those people, thankyouverymuch :)

[PresbyRev]

The notion of a graduate calling on those present to submit to Allah, "here's your chance," would have the same evangelicals who are denouncing your reasoned position screaming bloody murder.

There is responsibility that comes with rights. The First Amendment presumes upon the ability of folks to engage in civil discourse and respect other folks rights and conscience. The graduation ceremony at a government, public, non-sectarian school is simply not the place for religious zealotry or calls for conversion to any religion or irreligion.

Did the girl have the right to make her 'altar call?' Certainly. Was she choosing an ill-timed and ill-suited venue? Yes.

Again, if one person can use the government school to call for conversion to the evangelical version of Jesus, then so too students or teachers can use such venues to call for conversion to Shiva, to Allah, to the Ba'hai faith, etc. I would prefer not to have such competition and potential rancor smuggled into non-sectarian civic rituals like graduations at public schools.

Neither was the place nor time.

[lexington minuteman 1775]

Yeah, why not. Use RICO, because the ACLU is using intimidation tactics. Worth a try.

[FlipWilson]

No, just welfare state. They hope nobody will notice the infanticide and euthenasia.