Posted on 11/16/2005 11:36:11 AM PST by tightwadbob
Within the last week, there was a link here that discussed the military wanting to replace the 5.56 Nato with 7.62 NATO or some other round. I have used every search word I can think of but still can't locate that thread. Can anybody give me the link, PLEASE?
I hate nasty corrosive powder! :\
The 10 mm would be interesting in a relatively small, assault rifle format, perhaps like the Thompson. It seems that the 10 mm is doomed to obscurity in the near future for a number of reasons, like the lackof a decnt pistol to shoot it from. The Colt Delta Elite is still avaliable on a sporadic basis and so is the Glock Model 20. Other than those two, I don't think anyone is making a factory 10 mm gun. The round has been replaced (at least in law enforcement) by the .40 for better or worse.
I like the 5.56 ...........in my Contender(note screen name)
LOL! That's true if you do not clean it. After shooting it I use good ole soap and water, dry it, and put a small amount of a water displacing gun oil. Same gun for a number of years with no rust. No need for fancy solvents :D
I know, I clean and take care of all my firearms. I just think "real" Blackpowder is messy and more corrosive than the other stuff. :D... With my Hawkin i do the same as you i use really, really hot water and soap, after that i get out the hops, I set the water so hot that it evaporates really fast."ouch my fingers hot" :) my hawkin has a "browned" finish so it's already rusted. :D hehe
Nice saddle carbine.
Do you think Stag grips would be gauche?
1861 Springfield with a .58 cal minnie balls has killed more Americans than any other single gun. 
It's got the desirable features of a semi-auto, but with hair.
So, if it were up to me, I would adopt the 10mm Glock, by fiat, stamp 'em out like hotcakes and pump 'em to our troops right now.
Issue 10mm Grease-guns (O.K., MP-5s and nickel plated Uzis) just for esprit du corps (the "Thompsons just feel good...handy" factor, like swagger sticks, only louder), and make fluted, heavy barrel contour 6.8 uppers, with functional bayonet mounts.....but then again, I'd authorize the wearing of Mohican haircuts, war-paint, black leather motorcycle jackets, or Captain America costumes for elite units, with 10mm Scandium Thompsons, M14s, and BARs, and of course, mounted gets Rocket Belts, and laser weapons. Of course.
Hey, I gotta be me.
Squantos refuses.
My Glock 20 left for magnaport yesterday........waiting for it !
My beloved 1911A1 is still numbah one !
But if I had the money, that guncrafters 50GI would be a nice little rig to check out.
Time and testing ....fun'n gun if the weather holds out....otherwise it's off to the naked indoor range !
Cheers,
knews hound
http://knewshound.blogspot.com/
What an excellent LINK.
So this, borrowed from it:
"Jordan
spent 7 months at "Camp Blue Diamond" in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache. He
saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons,
equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of
interest to you. Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here,
just a Marine with a bird's eye view's opinions:
1) The M-16
rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder
like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel
filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine
version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has
jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the various
optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the
weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the
5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure
common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on to
put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows
a high level of opiate use.
2) The M243 SAW (squad assault
weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine gun. Big thumbs down.
Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic jamming problems, most
of which require partial disassembly. (that's fun in the middle of a
firefight).
3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed
bag. Good gun,
performs well in desert environment; but they all hate the 9mm
cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly
common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and
still in the fight.
4) Mossberg 12ga. Military
shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing houses to good
effect.
5)
The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!).
Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down.
Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are
being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round
chews up the structure over there.
...................................:
7)
The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on
one. With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with
a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol
work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old
government model .45's are being re-issued en masse.
8) The
M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a modified
version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight Kevlar
stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the sandy
environment, and they love the 7.62 round.
....................:
10) The M24 sniper rifle:
Thumbs up.
Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag. Heavily modified Remington
700's. Great performance. Snipers have been used heavily to great
effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his third tour in Anbar
province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record for confirmed
kills with OVER 100.
............................:
I cant help
but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance are 50
or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, it's the WWII and
Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry fighting is
frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown."
This is why we speak about the 9mm being perhaps marginal in a real fight. It isn't just some crank (me) raving off of his soapbox, into the night.
When I go off on this stuff, I am just trying to get some much needed attention (by making extreme, blanket, know-it-all, get a guy punched-out by a vet statements, and jumping up and down like an idiot, etc. Hey, it's a noble cause, and showbiz works) to what our predecessors really did learn from what they used, to accomplish some pretty important things with. I get all worked up just to counter so many questionable beancounter, make our allies comfortable decisions and gunwriter-espoused, now axiomatic principles, which can easily get one killed, when the reasoning hits the unforgiving pavement.
"You want your "assault weapon"? 1861 Springfield with a .58 cal minnie balls has killed more Americans than any other single gun."
"Benjamin Robins, an English mathematician, realized that an extruded bullet would retain the mass and kinetic force of a musket ball, but would slice through the air with much greater ease. The innovative work of Robins and others would take until the end of the 1700s to gain acceptance.
.....................................................
"Bullet" is derived from the French word "boulette" which roughly means "little ball." The original musket bullet was a spherical leaden ball two sizes smaller than the bore, wrapped in a loosely fitting paper patch which formed a tight seal so the full pressure of the expanding gas would propel the bullet. The loading was, therefore, easy with the old smooth-bore Brown Bess and similar military muskets. The original muzzle-loading rifle, on the other hand, with a closely fitting ball to take the rifling grooves, was loaded with difficulty, particularly when foul, and for this reason was not generally used for military purposes.[edit]
The bullet takes shape
As firearms became more technologically advanced from 1500 to 1800, the bullets changed little. They remained simple round lead balls, differing only in their size. Even with the advent of rifling the bullet itself didn't change, but was wrapped in a leather patch to grip the rifling grooves.
Nevertheless, many ideas were not pursued, and the history books are full of brilliant ideas that failed to catch on.
The first half of the 19th century saw a distinct change in the shape and function of the bullet. In 1826 Delirque, a French infantry officer, invented a breech with abrupt shoulders on which a spherical bullet was rammed down until it caught the rifling grooves. Delirque's method, however, deformed the bullet and was inaccurate.
Among the first "bullet-shaped" bullets was designed by Captain John Norton of the British Army in 1823. Norton's bullet had a hollow base which expanded under pressure to catch the rifling grooves once fired but the British Board of Ordnance rejected it because spherical bullets has been in use for the last 300 years.
Renowned English gunsmith William Greener invented the Greener bullet in 1836. It was very similar to Norton's bullet except that the hollow base of the bullet was fitted with a wooden plug which more reliably forced the base of the bullet to expand and catch the rifling. Tests proved that Greener's bullet was extremely effective but it was rejected because, being two parts, it was judged too complicated to produce.
The soft lead bullet that came to be known as the minié ball, (or minnie ball) was first introduced in 1847 by Claude Étienne Minié (1814? - 1879), a captain in the French Army. It was nearly identical to the Greener bullet: as designed by Minié the bullet was conical in shape with a hollow cavity in the rear end, which was fitted with a little iron cap instead of a wooden plug. When fired, the cap would force itself into the hollow cavity, forcing the sides of the bullet to expand and engage the rifling. In 1855 the British adopted the minie ball for their Enfield rifles.
It was in the American Civil War, however, that the minie ball saw the most use. Roughly 90% of the battlefield casualties in the war were caused by minie balls fired from rifles.
Big and heavy wins the race.
thanks !
Cheers,
knews hound
http://knewshound.blogspot.com/
58cal ouch thats a large hole. :D
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.