Chertoff to Hannity: Removing 10~11M ILLEGALS too expensive and impractical

FoxNews Channel: Hannity & Colmes ^ | November 14, 2005 | Transcript

[DTogo]

...HANNITY: Because you had made a controversial statement, and you seem to be backing off of it now, and it was that people that are here illegally, that they all ought to be sent back.

I'm paraphrasing.

And it seems like now you've sort of backed off that position a little bit, because there are million that we estimate that are in this country illegally.

Why wouldn't we send them back?

CHERTOFF: ...I also recognize we've got, according to some estimates, 10 to 11 million illegals already in this country working. And the cost of identifying all of those people and sending them back would be stupendous. It would be billions and billions of dollars...

HANNITY: Why — in that sense, aren't you really rewarding those that didn't respect our laws and sovereignty? In other words, OK, you're saying, you came into this country illegally.

Now that we've identified you, we're going to let you even stay longer and make money, and then you can go back in three to six years.

Why don't we say, no, you're here illegally, you didn't respect our laws, you ought to go home? Why don't we just say that?

CHERTOFF: Well, Sean, you know, it's really an issue of practicality.

I mean, as a practical matter, we've got to identify these people and pull them out of the shadows.

Now, this is not an amnesty. This is not — the president's proposal is not a path to citizenship. It's clearly temporary, and it clearly envisions people who would have to commit to go back....

[chronic_loser]

I will see freedom win

You're hoping the international socialists will prevail and their system of globally managed trade that allows phony businessmen to use slave labor will trump the American free enterprise system.

Damn. Spotted and outed at last. Yep. Mr CryptoMarxist. That's me. All that talk about freedom, belief in markets, confidence in capitalism, and the American Dream being for foreign born residents is just a veneer. I really am a Trotskyite cruising the FR boards in hope of picking up a few converts. OH THE SHAME!!!!! I guess I will have to turn in my membership card in the WSA, as I am no longer effective as an undercover agent. Sigh.

Sometimes the stupidity of FR responses makes my head hurt just to answer them.

[ridesthemiles]

Simple- Put a bounty on them.
Watch Americans try to get some bounty money.
I would turn in a couple myself if I was assured of the following:
1. The INS and the rest of Homeland Security would take me seriously.
2. I would remain totally anonymous and could never be the subject of retribution from the families/friends of illegal intruder.
3. The INS would jail/deort this person in a manner that would preclude them from returning.
4. The border gets shut once and for all. No vegetables or fruit comes in without inspecting trucks for persons/drugs. Never again do they get a free pass.

[taxed2death]

Your rant is just too much......nothing anti-latino about my post. I made a reference to Jose' and Jose'B...from a Cheech Marin tape. He's Hispanic in case you weren't aware of it.

I guess I just conduct business with a higher caliber of people than you do. I do not under-bid my competitors. I put out an HONEST appraisal of the work I will do. Some jobs are $50,000.00 other jobs are $150,000.00 I do not low ball and I do not pad estimates. Maybe that's why I do not spend one single dollar on advertising, nothing, not even a yellow page add or a web site, yet I am booked 18 months out.

The contractor who just put an addition on my house was a straight and level (legit) dude. No undocumented workers were on the jobsite. The landscaper that planted $18,000 worth of trees on my property 2 summers ago TRIED to come in with a crew of illegals. I caught him out. I basically told him "Since you're getting your labor at a reduced (illegit) rate...you won't mind if I lop off about 50% off your estimate". He was not to thrilled at that prospect, since he had a flatbed full of trees parked in front of my home paid for on his dime. What wonders!

You know? he showed up with a whole different crew the following day.....LOL.

It's amazing what you can get done if you have a backbone and some principles.

You've never, ever answered my questions to you.

What on earth do YOU personally have against legitimate American law abiding business owners?

You're just as bad as the criminal border crossers.

[sandbar]

I wasn't talking about getting out of America, I was talking about getting out of Free Republic.

[Borax Queen]

Yeah, I thought all the bleeding hearts on this thread would appreciate and relate to it.

[chronic_loser]

I wasn't talking about getting out of America, I was talking about getting out of Free Republic.

so was I.

[bray]

So if any of the mills I buy from use Mexican labor I should not do business with them? We all applaud your attempt to avoid illegal labor, however some of your suppliers most likely use them as well as others down the line. If they don't they are importing from China and S America or Russia. That is the laws of Capitalism, lower costs equal lower prices equal more business. Congratualations on your business, mine just passed it's second year and doing very well.

Pray for W and Our Freedom Fighters

[taxed2death]

"I will see freedom win, and enjoy watching liars who call themselves "conservatives" choke on their own hateful venomous bile as hispanics see the american dream take place with a salsa flavor."

I'm convinced, you're the ghost of Bayourod.

Your non stop race baiting is pointless.

"Faux conservatives continually rant as though there was only one of two choices: Slam the door shut and expel all foreigners or simply allow the border to be a sieve with no oversight."

Wrong again, most FReepers (myself included) have no problem with a legit guest worker program. But only after our borders are secured and illegals that are here sent home packing and put at the end of the line for worker permits.

Most FReepers (myself included) DO have a very big problem with "Amnesty" or any form of it.

Most FReepers (myself included) do not want to reward illegal behavior through "normalizing" or any other euphemism for SHamnesty.

Most FReepers (myself included) feel that a wall is actually a waste of money. We should boost Border Patrols and use our world class technology (unmanned drones) to patrol our borders.


....but do not believe me...just look at the poll results from FR.

It seems like you are in the minority here on FR and can hardly be considered a conservative.

[taxed2death]

"So if any of the mills I buy from use Mexican labor I should not do business with them?"

Up to you.

Mexican Labor?

I have nothing against Mexicans or Mexican labor. I applaud you for employing Mexicans in Mexico.

Do you mean "illegals" that are employed here in the US?

My own personal feelings are if I can find an American supplier who employs Americans, then that would be my first choice.
If I know that a business I deal with knowingly employs illegals here in the US, I let them know what my feelings are and quickly find another source / supplier. That is my choice. If they lose $50,000 a year in sales because I shift my business elsewhere...I'll let them know that the money they are "saving" just cost them $50,000.

[Czar]

"Oh I think you know."

You're the one throwing out reckless accusations of various posters being xenophobes and racists.

Who are they?

Put up or shut up.

[moehoward]

"Evidently going for the combo prize of stupid AND lazy.

Whatever. You want "stupid" look in a mirror. Too "lazy" to get one? Allow me.

From your "source".
The Denver Post article reported:

"[T]he citizenship of 16,031 members of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines is listed as 'unknown.' That's about one in 100 active-duty military members who might be U.S. citizens, legal immigrants - or just about anybody else.

Might some of these unknowns be Illegal Aliens? A few might. After all it IS the law that even Illegals of age register.

However your "source" does not prove -or for that matter even infer- all 16,000 are "Illegal", "Undocumented", or any other PC variant. Which brings us back to your statement, "16,000 plus illegals currently serving in the armed forces", is valueless BS.

On the other hand, if it's any consolation, your screen name appears to be completely on target!

[moehoward]

I'm convinced, you're the ghost of Bayourod.

Probability, extremely high. Same posting style, same "sources" that do not support statements made. Yep, I think you nailed it.

[wolfcreek]

Reckun they can teach them robots to cook, clean, paint, construct buildings, dig ditches, mow yards?(oh wait, they do have robots that mow yards) I don't know what the availability Of legal potiential employees there are out there but, I bet it's not 10 to 20 million people.

[wolfcreek]

Les Miserables "White American born son" needs a part time job. Maybe he will do back breaking work for pennies.


Got another 10 million or so that will work 16 hr. days?

[School of Rational Thought]

As Chertoff expects to failure can the outcome be anything different?

Billions of dollars? What about the TENS of billions being spent now for them here in medical, penal and educational costs?

[DTogo]

Just a few decades ago able-bodied teenagers, those not in college, or maybe even home-owners themselves did those jobs. If we got rid of the ILLEGALS and forced people to do that again we may have fewer overweight Americans, fewer idle teens getting into trouble, and an American work ethic once again.

[wolfcreek]

Sounds plausible but, the jury's out on that one.

[Les_Miserables]

read non-hispanic

[Czar]

Since dumping most of the last group of quislings, FR seems to have accumulated another tiny group of pro-illegal alien enthusiasts, supporters, apologists, and enablers to take their place. This post is meant for the six of you. The others I have pinged I consider loyal American conservatives, and they have performed extremely well in advancing the arguments of loyal American conservatives against the pro-illegal alien people that continue to infect this conservative site.

Below is an exchange I had with someone known around FR as Once-Ler. In the quoted passages, his statements are generally in italics, mine are generally not; there are only a few exceptions which should not confuse you. I consider Once-Ler a worthy debater and, for the most part, a gentleman.

Rather than responding by individual posts, I direct my part of this same exchange to the six of you, in response to your many posts on this thread.

”FR takes my money just fine...”

FR takes everybody’s money just fine. It’s still a conservative site for loyal American conservatives (unless you want to dispute the FR mission statement and JR’s supplement thereto). The Hispandering GOP Big Tent gaggle of RINOs, liberals and moderates are tolerated, that’s all.

”I'm for tax cuts, pro military, pro law enforcement and for controlling our borders.”

Agree on the first three but your posting record even today continues to be a problem on “controlling borders”. Disagree on the fourth.

”I want people to go through legal channels to get to the USA. I agree with many of the things your side says about illegal immigration. It needs to be stopped. It is a danger to our security. Terrorists may be slipping in, and not being spotted because a family of 7 is caught instead.”

Agree.

”I am against a fortified wall around the land of the free and the home of the brave.”

Yes, as you suspected this indeed is where the wheels come off. If that’s what it takes to once and for all stop the illegal alien lawbreakers, I’m all for one big honkin’ wall and the sooner the better. Disagree, big time.

”I have compassion for an illegal who snuck across, got a job and supported his family until the INS found him and ripped apart the family.”

I have no compassion for illegal aliens. None. They are lawbreakers and should be deported instantly when located. They represent a threat to those values I consider most important: sovereignty, borders, culture, customs, traditions and language. The federal government has a lot to answer for, starting with the 20 million lawbreakers now here. And I wouldn’t worry too much about the INS (ICE) finding your illegals–as they have amply demonstrated, they can’t find their own ass with both hands. Disagree.

”It is estimated that 20 million illegals live in the US now and still there is a huge demand for more workers. With legal and illegal immigration the CIA world fact book estimates our population grew by less than 1% last year. Unemployment is down to 5%. Illegals want jobs, and the businesses want workers. Some people wait years to get in legally. Most unskilled workers who apply are denied.”

That huge demand for more workers is in reality a huge demand for the cheapest labor possible. I’ll forego commenting on your source, but a 1% population growth and a 5% unemployment rate does not justify letting more lawbreakers into our country. Illegals who want jobs can make application for entering the country on temporary guest worker status, with which I have no problem so long as such a reformed program makes such stays of specific reasonable duration with all participants documented, fingerprinted and tracked while here, and further provided the anchor baby outrage is brought to a halt. Unless that is done, no guestworker program. Some people may very well wait years to get in legally–so what? And we don’t want unskilled anybodies–they should be denied any status other than as a temporary worker under a drastically reformed guestworker program with a "real teeth" oversight program to go with it. Disagree.

”I support Dubya's guest worker program to eliminate the job vacuum our shrinking native population is causing. With this one step I believe we could eliminate over 50% of the illegal flow across our borders. Perhaps much more.”

I do not support the Bush proposal because it is essentially an amnesty dressed up as a guest worker program. It features a slap on the wrist fine for being in this country illegally. Your justification for buying off on this disgrace is the old “aborting babies/need more workers” smokescreen. A guest worker program which merely passes a magic wand over 20 million illegal aliens and pronounces them all “guest workers” is nothing this country is going to accept. Ever. You do not eliminate “illegality” by pronouncing everyone “legal”. Anyone dumb enough to draft legislation doing exactly what Bush wants to do has a bill that is DOA in the House. I will only support a guest worker program when I am satisfied that all of the associated issues have been resolved; i.e., a halt to anchor babies; a deportation plan for the 20 million lawbreakers already here; a strong border protection plan, including whatever may be required in the way of armed guards and concrete fences. Disagree.

”I am not for indiscriminately letting any one across the border. I'm for allowing workers in, not criminals and terrorists and I expect checks and registration for all guest workers.”

Sounds reasonable, but the devil is always in the details, is it not? Until I am satisfied that all of the issues I have discussed above have been properly resolved, including an extensive and iron clad program for vetting all applicant guest workers, I am opposed. Agree provided all of my guest worker program concerns are satisfactorily resolved.

”I am all for increasing border security to capture terrorists, smugglers, and other criminals. I am less supportive of more border money so we can fail to stem the flow of illegals. I am doubtful there is a way to stop millions of starving illegal workers from figuring out how to work around our security, without killing many of them. I don't believe the American people would stand for massive casualties among illegals on the border.”

I am for anything that stops the illegal alien invasion. While I do not favor killing people, lethal force is certainly justified as a last resort to protect our sovereignty, borders, culture, customs, traditions and language. There’s those annoying loyal American conservative values again. As for whether the American people would stand for a lethal response, lets hope we don’t have to find out. Disagree.

”As a point of practicality, I favor letting some illegals stay as long as they have established a good work and criminal history, and perhaps family ties.”

You’re compassionate on the illegal alien issue–I’m not. No room for compromise here. Rule of law applies. If you came here illegally– get out. Go back and apply legally. Disagree.

”I am for protecting our sovereignty, and securing and protecting our borders. I am against laying land mines.”

The problem we have here, and have been discussing ad nauseum, is that what you are “for” comes up short when tough measures must be put in place because that is where you go all wobbly on us with “compassion”. I reserve my compassion for our citizens in the border states and elsewhere who have had to bear the brunt of the illegal alien invasion. Save your compassion for them. Disagree.

”I'm for preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language. But American culture has changed with immigrantion before, even as the immigrants changed and adopted our culture. I see no reason to fear the mostly Catholic Hispanics. They love their families and wear pants.

No “buts” allowed when it comes to the preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language. You’re either for it or agin’ it. Your words say you don’t really feel all that strongly about it. Loyal American conservatives do. Disagree

”Some claim Hispanics don't assimilate like previous immigrants. These people are ignorant of history.”

How does that old joke go? Don’t pee on my leg and try to tell me it’s raining? Something like that. Look I reside in SoCal, right next to Santa Ana. Don’t try to tell me the illegal aliens assimilate. They do not, regardless of what you believe history says. That was then--this is now. Disagree.

The children of illegals are being schooled in our schools. They are citizens adapting to our culture.”

Please explain just why in the hell American taxpayers should fund the education of anchor babies foisted on us by illegal alien parents. We should not be responsible for providing free education for the children of lawbreakers, even though people like you feel it is the “compassionate” thing to do. Schools around here have been flooded with them. School districts are going broke trying to deal with it. You’re smoking something that is probably illegal if you believe any of us are going to buy into this one. And I am not entirely convinced that the law requires us to do so. Disagree

”So I've answered you questions. Did you even want to try and refute any of my previous posts, or just call me a quisling and question my love for this country?”

No, you really haven’t answered my single question, which was: You know what a loyal American conservative is, don't you? It is someone who believes strongly in defending American sovereignty, secure and protected borders, and the preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language. These are the values of loyal American conservatives, the majority group at FR. Tell us Once-Ler, do you accept these values? Loyal American conservatives want to know.

Just as two of the other three attempted to do, you too could not bring yourself to voice a simple “yes”. Instead, you explain, add conditions, interject excuses, lecture us on the need for “compassion” and carry on at length about the phantom need for more labor. At bottom, you don't want to say “yes”, but rather want to appear to be saying “yes”, but no matter how we try to interpret what you say, it still comes up short because you can’t accept the hard decisions when it comes to those magic values I talked about. You’re either for aggressively defending American sovereignty, protecting and securing our borders, and the preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language, or you’re not. According to your own words: yes, you believe in this provided I don’t have to use lethal force to do so; yes, I believe in that as long as I don’t have to build a wall.

You may consider yourself a loyal American conservative. I do not. Feel free to come back and apply again when you don’t have to hang so many “ifs, ands and buts” onto your answers...By the way, I do not question your love for this country--just seems to me, based on your own words, it's kind of conditional (that "compassion" problem again)."

[End of my August post to Once-Ler.]

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