Probability, extremely high. Same posting style, same "sources" that do not support statements made. Yep, I think you nailed it.
Below is an exchange I had with someone known around FR as Once-Ler. In the quoted passages, his statements are generally in italics, mine are generally not; there are only a few exceptions which should not confuse you. I consider Once-Ler a worthy debater and, for the most part, a gentleman.
Rather than responding by individual posts, I direct my part of this same exchange to the six of you, in response to your many posts on this thread.
”FR takes my money just fine...”
FR takes everybody’s money just fine. It’s still a conservative site for loyal American conservatives (unless you want to dispute the FR mission statement and JR’s supplement thereto). The Hispandering GOP Big Tent gaggle of RINOs, liberals and moderates are tolerated, that’s all.
”I'm for tax cuts, pro military, pro law enforcement and for controlling our borders.”
Agree on the first three but your posting record even today continues to be a problem on “controlling borders”. Disagree on the fourth.
”I want people to go through legal channels to get to the USA. I agree with many of the things your side says about illegal immigration. It needs to be stopped. It is a danger to our security. Terrorists may be slipping in, and not being spotted because a family of 7 is caught instead.”
Agree.
”I am against a fortified wall around the land of the free and the home of the brave.”
Yes, as you suspected this indeed is where the wheels come off. If that’s what it takes to once and for all stop the illegal alien lawbreakers, I’m all for one big honkin’ wall and the sooner the better. Disagree, big time.
”I have compassion for an illegal who snuck across, got a job and supported his family until the INS found him and ripped apart the family.”
I have no compassion for illegal aliens. None. They are lawbreakers and should be deported instantly when located. They represent a threat to those values I consider most important: sovereignty, borders, culture, customs, traditions and language. The federal government has a lot to answer for, starting with the 20 million lawbreakers now here. And I wouldn’t worry too much about the INS (ICE) finding your illegals–as they have amply demonstrated, they can’t find their own ass with both hands. Disagree.
”It is estimated that 20 million illegals live in the US now and still there is a huge demand for more workers. With legal and illegal immigration the CIA world fact book estimates our population grew by less than 1% last year. Unemployment is down to 5%. Illegals want jobs, and the businesses want workers. Some people wait years to get in legally. Most unskilled workers who apply are denied.”
That huge demand for more workers is in reality a huge demand for the cheapest labor possible. I’ll forego commenting on your source, but a 1% population growth and a 5% unemployment rate does not justify letting more lawbreakers into our country. Illegals who want jobs can make application for entering the country on temporary guest worker status, with which I have no problem so long as such a reformed program makes such stays of specific reasonable duration with all participants documented, fingerprinted and tracked while here, and further provided the anchor baby outrage is brought to a halt. Unless that is done, no guestworker program. Some people may very well wait years to get in legally–so what? And we don’t want unskilled anybodies–they should be denied any status other than as a temporary worker under a drastically reformed guestworker program with a "real teeth" oversight program to go with it. Disagree.
”I support Dubya's guest worker program to eliminate the job vacuum our shrinking native population is causing. With this one step I believe we could eliminate over 50% of the illegal flow across our borders. Perhaps much more.”
I do not support the Bush proposal because it is essentially an amnesty dressed up as a guest worker program. It features a slap on the wrist fine for being in this country illegally. Your justification for buying off on this disgrace is the old “aborting babies/need more workers” smokescreen. A guest worker program which merely passes a magic wand over 20 million illegal aliens and pronounces them all “guest workers” is nothing this country is going to accept. Ever. You do not eliminate “illegality” by pronouncing everyone “legal”. Anyone dumb enough to draft legislation doing exactly what Bush wants to do has a bill that is DOA in the House. I will only support a guest worker program when I am satisfied that all of the associated issues have been resolved; i.e., a halt to anchor babies; a deportation plan for the 20 million lawbreakers already here; a strong border protection plan, including whatever may be required in the way of armed guards and concrete fences. Disagree.
”I am not for indiscriminately letting any one across the border. I'm for allowing workers in, not criminals and terrorists and I expect checks and registration for all guest workers.”
Sounds reasonable, but the devil is always in the details, is it not? Until I am satisfied that all of the issues I have discussed above have been properly resolved, including an extensive and iron clad program for vetting all applicant guest workers, I am opposed. Agree provided all of my guest worker program concerns are satisfactorily resolved.
”I am all for increasing border security to capture terrorists, smugglers, and other criminals. I am less supportive of more border money so we can fail to stem the flow of illegals. I am doubtful there is a way to stop millions of starving illegal workers from figuring out how to work around our security, without killing many of them. I don't believe the American people would stand for massive casualties among illegals on the border.”
I am for anything that stops the illegal alien invasion. While I do not favor killing people, lethal force is certainly justified as a last resort to protect our sovereignty, borders, culture, customs, traditions and language. There’s those annoying loyal American conservative values again. As for whether the American people would stand for a lethal response, lets hope we don’t have to find out. Disagree.
”As a point of practicality, I favor letting some illegals stay as long as they have established a good work and criminal history, and perhaps family ties.”
You’re compassionate on the illegal alien issue–I’m not. No room for compromise here. Rule of law applies. If you came here illegally– get out. Go back and apply legally. Disagree.
”I am for protecting our sovereignty, and securing and protecting our borders. I am against laying land mines.”
The problem we have here, and have been discussing ad nauseum, is that what you are “for” comes up short when tough measures must be put in place because that is where you go all wobbly on us with “compassion”. I reserve my compassion for our citizens in the border states and elsewhere who have had to bear the brunt of the illegal alien invasion. Save your compassion for them. Disagree.
”I'm for preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language. But American culture has changed with immigrantion before, even as the immigrants changed and adopted our culture. I see no reason to fear the mostly Catholic Hispanics. They love their families and wear pants.
No “buts” allowed when it comes to the preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language. You’re either for it or agin’ it. Your words say you don’t really feel all that strongly about it. Loyal American conservatives do. Disagree
”Some claim Hispanics don't assimilate like previous immigrants. These people are ignorant of history.”
How does that old joke go? Don’t pee on my leg and try to tell me it’s raining? Something like that. Look I reside in SoCal, right next to Santa Ana. Don’t try to tell me the illegal aliens assimilate. They do not, regardless of what you believe history says. That was then--this is now. Disagree.
The children of illegals are being schooled in our schools. They are citizens adapting to our culture.”
Please explain just why in the hell American taxpayers should fund the education of anchor babies foisted on us by illegal alien parents. We should not be responsible for providing free education for the children of lawbreakers, even though people like you feel it is the “compassionate” thing to do. Schools around here have been flooded with them. School districts are going broke trying to deal with it. You’re smoking something that is probably illegal if you believe any of us are going to buy into this one. And I am not entirely convinced that the law requires us to do so. Disagree
”So I've answered you questions. Did you even want to try and refute any of my previous posts, or just call me a quisling and question my love for this country?”
No, you really haven’t answered my single question, which was: You know what a loyal American conservative is, don't you? It is someone who believes strongly in defending American sovereignty, secure and protected borders, and the preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language. These are the values of loyal American conservatives, the majority group at FR. Tell us Once-Ler, do you accept these values? Loyal American conservatives want to know.
Just as two of the other three attempted to do, you too could not bring yourself to voice a simple “yes”. Instead, you explain, add conditions, interject excuses, lecture us on the need for “compassion” and carry on at length about the phantom need for more labor. At bottom, you don't want to say “yes”, but rather want to appear to be saying “yes”, but no matter how we try to interpret what you say, it still comes up short because you can’t accept the hard decisions when it comes to those magic values I talked about. You’re either for aggressively defending American sovereignty, protecting and securing our borders, and the preservation of American culture, customs, traditions and language, or you’re not. According to your own words: yes, you believe in this provided I don’t have to use lethal force to do so; yes, I believe in that as long as I don’t have to build a wall.
You may consider yourself a loyal American conservative. I do not. Feel free to come back and apply again when you don’t have to hang so many “ifs, ands and buts” onto your answers...By the way, I do not question your love for this country--just seems to me, based on your own words, it's kind of conditional (that "compassion" problem again)."
[End of my August post to Once-Ler.]
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