Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Math problems too big for our brains
Ottawa Citizen via The Windsor Star ^ | November 8 2005

Posted on 11/08/2005 8:48:52 AM PST by RightWingAtheist

Our brains have become too small to understand math, says a rebel mathematician from Britain. Or rather, math problems have grown too big to fit inside our heads. And that means mathematicians are finally losing the power to prove things with absolute certainty.

Math has been the only sure form of knowledge since the ancient Greeks, 2,500 years ago.

You can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow, but you can prove two plus two equals four, always and everywhere.

But suddenly, Brian Davies of King's College London is shaking the foundations of certainty.

He says our brains can't grasp today's complex, computer-generated math proofs.

"We are beginning to see the limits of our ability to understand things. We are animals, and our brains have a certain amount of capacity to understand things, and there are parts of mathematics where we are beginning to reach our limit.

"It is almost an inevitable consequence of the way mathematics has been done in the last century," he said in an interview.

Mathematicians work in huge groups, and with big computers.

A few still do it the old-fashioned way, he says: "By individuals sitting in their rooms for long periods, thinking.

"But there are other areas where the complexity of the problems is forcing people to work in groups or to use computers to solve large bits of work, ending up with the computer saying: 'Look, if you formulated the problem correctly, I've gone through all the 15 million cases and they all are OK, so your theorem's true'."

But the human brain can't grasp all this. And for Davies, knowing that a computer checked something isn't what matters most. It's understanding why the thing works that matters.

"What mathematicians are trying to get is insight and understanding. If God were to say, 'Look, here's your list of conjectures. This one's true, then false, false, true, true,' mathematicians would say: 'Look, I don't care what the answers are. I want to know why (and) understand it.' And a computer doesn't understand it.

"This idea that we can understand anything we believe is gradually disappearing over the horizon."

One example is the Four Colour Theorem.

Imagine a mapmaker wants to produce a colour map, where each country will be a different colour from any country touching it. In other words, France and Germany can't both be blue. That would be confusing.

So, what's the smallest number of colours that will work?

A kid can work out you need four colours. But can you prove it? Can anyone be certain, as with two-plus-two?

The answer turns out to be a hesitant Yes, but the proof depends on having a computer to work through page after page of stuff so complex that no single person can take it all in.

And it's getting worse, Davies writes in an article called "Whither Mathematics?" in today's edition of Notices of the American Mathematical Society, a math journal.

Math has tried to write a grand scheme for classifying "finite simple groups," a range of mathematical objects as basic to this discipline as the table of the elements is to chemistry -- but much bigger.

The full body of work runs to some 10,000 difficult pages. No human can ever understand all of it, either.

A year ago, Britain's Royal Society held a special symposium to tackle this question of certainty.

But many in the math community still shrug off the issue, Davies says. "Basically, mathematicians are not very good philosophers."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: computers; epistemology; fuzzymath; mathamphetamine; mathematics; philosophy; science; thenewnewmath
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-177 next last

1 posted on 11/08/2005 8:48:52 AM PST by RightWingAtheist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Fierce Allegiance

See, it wasn't my fault.


2 posted on 11/08/2005 8:50:30 AM PST by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

This is a conspiratorial news release by the big computer companies to promote their new products. Pencil pusher mathmeticians, UNITE!!!


3 posted on 11/08/2005 8:50:50 AM PST by Tulsa Ramjet ("So far, so good. But this is only phase 1."--Captain America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

Too small to understand self responsibility, now math.


4 posted on 11/08/2005 8:52:32 AM PST by right right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

Getting ready for the new P.C. Social Theory: Kids fail at math because humans weren't designed to understand math. It's not their fault if they bring home 'F'.


5 posted on 11/08/2005 8:52:41 AM PST by theDentist (The Dems have put all their eggs in one basket-case: Howard "Belltower" Dean.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

Everything that can be invented has already been invented. Didn't someone say that over 100 years ago?


6 posted on 11/08/2005 8:55:41 AM PST by Moonman62 (Federal creed: If it moves tax it. If it keeps moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

Nothing new here. I told my mother this as I handed her my report card in 1958.


7 posted on 11/08/2005 8:55:50 AM PST by Eagles Talon IV (Still waiting for the)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

So easy a three year old can do it! Somebody run out and get me a three year old.


8 posted on 11/08/2005 8:56:11 AM PST by ghitma (Lifter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

Math not so hard, dumb dumb!

9 posted on 11/08/2005 8:57:33 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jersey Republican Biker Chick

I agree it's not your fault, but Bush?


10 posted on 11/08/2005 8:57:43 AM PST by Malesherbes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

This is too funny. I'm a math teacher on a professional development day. I just took a break. and this is the top story!


11 posted on 11/08/2005 8:58:37 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (By defiintion, we cannot have Consensus until you agree with me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

This is too funny. I'm a math teacher on a professional development day. I just took a break. and this is the top story!


12 posted on 11/08/2005 8:58:39 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (By defiintion, we cannot have Consensus until you agree with me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jersey Republican Biker Chick; Darksheare
See, it wasn't my fault.

Nope. It's Darks' fault...

13 posted on 11/08/2005 9:00:01 AM PST by null and void (People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

What mathematicians are trying to get is insight and understanding. If God were to say, 'Look, here's your list of conjectures. This one's true, then false, false, true, true,' mathematicians would say: 'Look, I don't care what the answers are. I want to know why (and) understand it.' And a computer doesn't understand it.

Ummm, build better computers?

14 posted on 11/08/2005 9:00:21 AM PST by GOPJ (The French should ask immigrants "Do you want to be Frenchmen?"- Not "Will you work cheap?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist

"You can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow, but you can prove two plus two equals four, always and everywhere. "




Really? I can prove that 2 + 2 = 11.


15 posted on 11/08/2005 9:00:33 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist
cute little casher: that'll be $1.63
Doogle: (gives cute little casher two one dollar bills)
cute little casher: can you hold a sec? I don't have any quarters.
Doogle: ah yeah
cute little casher: (after banging roll of quarters on cash register draw and spraying draw with quarters) I'm sorry, here you go, (she handed me three dimes,a nickle,and two pennies)
Doogle: thanks


Doogle
16 posted on 11/08/2005 9:01:19 AM PST by Doogle (USAF...7thAF ..4077th TFW...408th MMS..Ubon Thailand.."69",,Night Line Delivery..AMMO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Malesherbes

I knew it all along.


17 posted on 11/08/2005 9:01:45 AM PST by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: MineralMan

Depending on what you pay me...I can make any amount add up to what you want.


18 posted on 11/08/2005 9:02:22 AM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: null and void; Darksheare
OK, Its Darks fault I was so wrong on the geometry question last Friday.
19 posted on 11/08/2005 9:02:47 AM PST by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: RightWingAtheist
Math has been the only sure form of knowledge since the ancient Greeks, 2,500 years ago.

Um, I beg to differ. My spouse and I know a different kind of knowledge. And it's not Greek.

20 posted on 11/08/2005 9:03:03 AM PST by LurkedLongEnough
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-177 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson