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Math problems too big for our brains
Ottawa Citizen via The Windsor Star ^ | November 8 2005

Posted on 11/08/2005 8:48:52 AM PST by RightWingAtheist

Our brains have become too small to understand math, says a rebel mathematician from Britain. Or rather, math problems have grown too big to fit inside our heads. And that means mathematicians are finally losing the power to prove things with absolute certainty.

Math has been the only sure form of knowledge since the ancient Greeks, 2,500 years ago.

You can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow, but you can prove two plus two equals four, always and everywhere.

But suddenly, Brian Davies of King's College London is shaking the foundations of certainty.

He says our brains can't grasp today's complex, computer-generated math proofs.

"We are beginning to see the limits of our ability to understand things. We are animals, and our brains have a certain amount of capacity to understand things, and there are parts of mathematics where we are beginning to reach our limit.

"It is almost an inevitable consequence of the way mathematics has been done in the last century," he said in an interview.

Mathematicians work in huge groups, and with big computers.

A few still do it the old-fashioned way, he says: "By individuals sitting in their rooms for long periods, thinking.

"But there are other areas where the complexity of the problems is forcing people to work in groups or to use computers to solve large bits of work, ending up with the computer saying: 'Look, if you formulated the problem correctly, I've gone through all the 15 million cases and they all are OK, so your theorem's true'."

But the human brain can't grasp all this. And for Davies, knowing that a computer checked something isn't what matters most. It's understanding why the thing works that matters.

"What mathematicians are trying to get is insight and understanding. If God were to say, 'Look, here's your list of conjectures. This one's true, then false, false, true, true,' mathematicians would say: 'Look, I don't care what the answers are. I want to know why (and) understand it.' And a computer doesn't understand it.

"This idea that we can understand anything we believe is gradually disappearing over the horizon."

One example is the Four Colour Theorem.

Imagine a mapmaker wants to produce a colour map, where each country will be a different colour from any country touching it. In other words, France and Germany can't both be blue. That would be confusing.

So, what's the smallest number of colours that will work?

A kid can work out you need four colours. But can you prove it? Can anyone be certain, as with two-plus-two?

The answer turns out to be a hesitant Yes, but the proof depends on having a computer to work through page after page of stuff so complex that no single person can take it all in.

And it's getting worse, Davies writes in an article called "Whither Mathematics?" in today's edition of Notices of the American Mathematical Society, a math journal.

Math has tried to write a grand scheme for classifying "finite simple groups," a range of mathematical objects as basic to this discipline as the table of the elements is to chemistry -- but much bigger.

The full body of work runs to some 10,000 difficult pages. No human can ever understand all of it, either.

A year ago, Britain's Royal Society held a special symposium to tackle this question of certainty.

But many in the math community still shrug off the issue, Davies says. "Basically, mathematicians are not very good philosophers."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: computers; epistemology; fuzzymath; mathamphetamine; mathematics; philosophy; science; thenewnewmath
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To: MineralMan

Try looking up "factorial bases". There's a mind-blower.


101 posted on 11/08/2005 10:49:52 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: RightWingAtheist

2 + 2 = 5, for very big 2.


102 posted on 11/08/2005 10:55:55 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (NY Times headline: Protocols of the Learned Elders of CBS, Fake but Accurate, Experts Say)
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To: RightWingAtheist

Sir Francis Bacon died as a lonely and severely disappointed man.


103 posted on 11/08/2005 10:56:37 AM PST by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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To: ctdonath2

"Try looking up "factorial bases". There's a mind-blower."




Now, that makes my brain hurt.

I mentioned earlier the Sumerian/Babylonian Base 60 system. We still preserve that system in our hours and minutes.

One article pointed out that Base 30 is a natural counting system, using the joints of the fingers (base of thumb counts as a joint) as counters. I immediately thought of how you could display all 30 numbers by hand position. Fascinating.

Our calendar and our time measurement system comes from Base 12 math, which can also be derived from Base 60, and probably was.

Then we have the 360 degrees of the circle, also compatible with base 60.

Longitude and Lattitude are also expressed in 60 increments.

Apparently the Mayans used Base 20 in their math.

Numbers are amazing.


104 posted on 11/08/2005 10:57:59 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: RightWingAtheist
No human can ever understand all of it, either.

When I discovered that pie are not square and corn bread was, I realized that I didn't have the capability for math.

105 posted on 11/08/2005 11:00:54 AM PST by scouse
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To: RightWingAtheist

bump


106 posted on 11/08/2005 11:13:45 AM PST by Centurion2000 ((Aubrey, Tx) --- America, we get the best government corporations can buy.)
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To: boojumsnark

Is the set of all sets that are not subsets of themselves a subset of itself?


107 posted on 11/08/2005 11:27:09 AM PST by Freedom_Fighter_2001 (When money is no object - it's your money they're talking about)
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To: Professional Engineer

Sorry, this is only defined over the range 18-49 years. After this time, n approaches nny geometrically.


108 posted on 11/08/2005 11:30:59 AM PST by Freedom_Fighter_2001 (When money is no object - it's your money they're talking about)
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To: tutstar

bump for later...


109 posted on 11/08/2005 11:41:14 AM PST by tutstar (OurFlorida.true.ws)
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To: RightWingAtheist
you can prove two plus two equals four, always and everywhere.

Are you sure? How accurately can you measure zero, or two, or four? Two plus two may be 3.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 because one two was actually 1.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999; or was it the other 2.

110 posted on 11/08/2005 11:48:06 AM PST by MosesKnows
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To: MineralMan
And there ya go, except for one small detail. One of the fingers has to represent zero in Base 8. That's a problem if you count on your fingers.

But that's why God gave us belly buttons.

111 posted on 11/08/2005 1:45:18 PM PST by Erasmus (Getting captivated by modern music leads to Stockhausen Syndrome.)
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To: Erasmus

"But that's why God gave us belly buttons."

Gosh, and here I though I got mine from my mom. I'm pretty sure an umbilical cord was involved.

Question: Did Adam have a navel?


112 posted on 11/08/2005 1:46:31 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Faraday
Apparently the reporter has never heard of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. To wit: "In any axiomatic mathematical system there are propositions that cannot be proved or disproved within the axioms of the system."

Slight edit: "In any axiomatic mathematical system there are propositions which are true but which cannot be proved or disproved within the axioms of the system."

113 posted on 11/08/2005 1:47:40 PM PST by Erasmus (Getting captivated by modern music leads to Stockhausen Syndrome.)
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To: MineralMan
Really? I can prove that 2 + 2 = 11.

Yes and I can prove that 1+1 = 10.

114 posted on 11/08/2005 1:50:56 PM PST by tophat9000 ("Space for rent")
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To: tophat9000

"Yes and I can prove that 1+1 = 10."

2+2=10, too.


115 posted on 11/08/2005 1:56:11 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MortMan
There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary math, and those that don't! ;-P

That jokes so old, what are you, F?

116 posted on 11/08/2005 1:56:25 PM PST by tophat9000 ("Space for rent")
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To: MineralMan
Question: Did Adam have a navel?

No.

Question: How does an asexually reproducing organism produce offspring that reproduces sexually? :)

117 posted on 11/08/2005 1:58:51 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: RightWingAtheist

118 posted on 11/08/2005 2:02:10 PM PST by TX Bluebonnet
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To: ShadowAce
Question: How does an asexually reproducing organism produce offspring that reproduces sexually? :)

Oddly that question is valid for both creationists and evolutionists in that both contend an asexually start

119 posted on 11/08/2005 2:10:33 PM PST by tophat9000 ("Space for rent")
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To: RightWingAtheist
42...

I wonder how many people have already posted this answer...

BTW, this really IS the correct answer to the question... Try plugging this into your c compiler:

#include
#define SIX 1 + 5
#define NINE 8 + 1

int main(void)

{
printf( "What do you get if you multiply %d by %d? %d\n", SIX, NINE, SIX * NINE );
return 0;
}

Mark

120 posted on 11/08/2005 2:17:07 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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