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Wal-Mart has Belleville over the TIF barrel
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH ^ | 11/03/2005 | Martin Van Der Werf

Posted on 11/03/2005 10:28:11 PM PST by demsux

There are a lot of candidates for biggest misuse of tax-increment financing. Enter a new contender: the pending approval of a TIF to build a Wal-Mart Supercenter and a Lowe's in Belleville.

It's bad enough that the world's largest retailer argues that it needs a tax break or it won't build. It's worse when a city, now dependent on Wal-Mart's sales taxes, feels that it can't turn down the request.

(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: development; eminentdomain; illinois; realestate; retail; tif; walmart
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I'd be able to offer "low...low...prices" also, if I could get a City to build my infrastructure for me.

BTW, THF, the developer in this article is none other than Stan Kroenke, Wal-Mart family member, board member and PREFERRED developer for Wal-Mart.

BTW, Hillary was a member of the BOD of Wal-Mart, just for your information.

1 posted on 11/03/2005 10:28:12 PM PST by demsux
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To: demsux
Is it possible that one day one giant cooperation will rule the earth. It's looking more and more like the big cooperations are running this country.
2 posted on 11/03/2005 10:33:58 PM PST by PositiveCogins
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To: demsux
I'd be able to offer "low...low...prices" also, if I could get a City to build my infrastructure for me.

Are you talking about MLB or Walmart ?

3 posted on 11/03/2005 10:36:54 PM PST by staytrue
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To: PositiveCogins
It's worse when a city, now dependent on Wal-Mart's sales taxes, feels that it can't turn down the request.

Here a city sees sales tax generated by walmart. It would be nice to see the sales taxes lost by small businesses closing down due to walmart and the lost real estate taxes, payroll taxes, etc. lost when these businesses shut down.

That said, I do like Walmart roast chicken.

4 posted on 11/03/2005 10:40:05 PM PST by staytrue
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To: demsux
"I'd be able to offer "low...low...prices" also, if I could get a City to build my infrastructure for me."

I'd wait and compare the tax revenue pre Wal-mart vs. post Wal-mart. My money is on the city/county making more. But I would be interested in knowing the results.
5 posted on 11/03/2005 10:43:35 PM PST by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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To: demsux

I love Wal-Mart because the liberals hate it.
Someday I hope Wal-Mart sponsors a Rollerball team.


6 posted on 11/03/2005 10:51:26 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: demsux

Wal-Mart is nothing compared to a stadium or a highrise complex that will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions for little to nothing in return


7 posted on 11/03/2005 10:52:11 PM PST by GeronL (Leftism is the INSANE Cult of the Artificial)
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To: staytrue
Are you talking about MLB or Walmart ?

Sounds like he's talking about the Jacksonville Jaguars...

8 posted on 11/03/2005 11:24:57 PM PST by Triggerhippie (Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.)
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To: demsux

WalMart , helping to build communities.................Or rip them apart.

Its your choice.


9 posted on 11/03/2005 11:28:35 PM PST by Peace will be here soon ((Liberal definition of looting: "Self-help Humanitarian Aid."))
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To: Peace will be here soon
WalMart , helping to build communities.................Or rip them apart.

Possibly both. Building the community they are in, and ripping apart neighboring communities by destroying the local merchants there.

10 posted on 11/04/2005 1:00:36 AM PST by staytrue
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To: MPJackal
My money is on the city/county making more

Depends if you include the cost of medicaid and/or other welfare for walmart workers.

11 posted on 11/04/2005 1:02:20 AM PST by staytrue
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To: staytrue
"and/or other welfare for walmart workers."

Not sure what you mean by that.

As for Medicaid, isn't it a co-share between the employee, employer, and the Fed Government? I did not think that would effect Local Governments financial responsibility.

But like I said, I would like to see the comparison, in total, to see the overall effect over time.

From a few things I have read and heard is that the evidence is starting to show that Wal-mart is having positive economic impact on communities. Mom and Pop stores can't compete so they go in other directions i.e. a small store becomes a specialty store, cafe, Starbucks, and so on. Not sure if it is true, and I am sure there are individuals that have gone under, but you can't keep struggling businesses open by prohibiting competition. Kinda goes against Capitalism and competition, and does not help keep prices down.
12 posted on 11/04/2005 1:49:24 AM PST by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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To: MPJackal
I'd wait and compare the tax revenue pre Wal-mart vs. post Wal-mart.

The Wal-Mart is already there. They want to anchor a shopping center with a Super Walmart and a Lowe's.

But, yes, the original Wal-Mart will be closed.

Additionally, someone also mentioned that Stan Kroenke of Columbia Mo was the preferred builder of Wal Marts. I can tell you that he and his "boys" aren't too smart. After building a Super Wal Mart in my hometown, they realized that they had forgotten to put in a 1 acre retention pond and were out of land. Friends of mine owned two acres adjacent to the Wal Mart site that were "land locked" by the Wal Mart parking lot. Wal Mart approached them for a deal and were told the 2 acres were priced at about $200K. So Wal Mart asked how much for one acre, answer was $200K. Since no one else had, or was willing to part with an acre to Wal Mart, they ended up buying my friends' land for the original price

13 posted on 11/04/2005 2:03:09 AM PST by woofer
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To: demsux
BTW, Hillary was a member of the BOD of Wal-Mart, just for your information.

Just for your information, when Hillary was on the Wal-Mart board her "husband" was governor of Arkansas. It was a political appointment only to help the Clintons pay their bills. She had no input in the everyday operation of Wal-Mart, none. I doubt she even showed up for many of the meetings. She was too busy planning her "husband's" future.

14 posted on 11/04/2005 2:09:50 AM PST by kcvl
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To: demsux

E Stanley Kroenke , 55 , self made


Source: real estate
Net Worth: $1.4 bil up
Home State: Missouri
Marital Status: married , 2 children
University of Missouri, Bachelor of Arts / Science
University of Missouri, Masters of Business Administration

Husband and wife. Ann's father Bud Walton (d. 1995) went in with his brother Sam on Wal-Mart. His stake now divided between Ann and sister Nancy Laurie. Stan: real estate developer, including many shopping centers anchored around Wal-Marts, also 560,000 acres of ranch land. Stan owns stake in NFL's St. Louis Rams, all of NBA's Denver Nuggets and Colorado Avalanche.

As Chairman of THF Realty, Stan Kroenke leads a company that is a national investor, developer and owner of commercial real estate. THF is a developer and owner of numerous shopping centers, office buildings and industrial projects around the country.

He serves as a member of the board of directors of Central Bancompany, Jefferson City, Missouri; Boone County National Bank, Columbia, Missouri; and Community Investment Partnership Funds I and II, St. Louis, Missouri. He is a trustee of the College of the Ozarks in Point Lookout, Missouri. He also serves on the boards of the Greater St. Louis Area Council Boy Scouts of America and the St. Louis Art Museum.


15 posted on 11/04/2005 2:18:21 AM PST by kcvl
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To: PositiveCogins
"It's looking more and more like the big cooperations are running this country."

Any idea who owns the stock of these national threats and where the dividends are going?

Look at your 401k and IRA's

16 posted on 11/04/2005 2:26:49 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: PositiveCogins
Is it possible that one day one giant cooperation will rule the earth. It's looking more and more like the big cooperations are running this country.

Walmart is not a "cooperation", it is a "corporation". You are a victim of a public school "education". Ask for a refund.

Walmart Shareholder
17 posted on 11/04/2005 2:41:51 AM PST by ed1340
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To: woofer
At least they did not use Imminent Domain.
18 posted on 11/04/2005 2:45:03 AM PST by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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To: MPJackal
but you can't keep struggling businesses open by prohibiting competition.

I definitely agree with this, BUT, you don't give tax breaks to walmart that other stores get and you don't raise taxes on other businesses to build roads, sewers, etc. for walmart. And that is what this article is about.

19 posted on 11/04/2005 2:48:06 AM PST by staytrue
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To: PositiveCogins; demsux
Is it possible that one day one giant cooperation will rule the earth. It's looking more and more like the big cooperations are running this country.

That's the same line the populist retards were using back in the 1920s, when it looked like Sears and the oil companies were "runnin da cuntry."

1. The overwhelming majority of people in the US are employed by small businesses.

2. Every Wal Mart I have seen attracts new development, leading to more small businesses in the area.

I thought that this "bash capitalism" BS was left for DU.

20 posted on 11/04/2005 2:51:13 AM PST by Clemenza (In League with the Freemasons, The Bilderbergers, and the Learned Elders of Zion)
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